Reptile & Amphibian Forums

what would be the best legal box turtle for keeping in a outdoor pen in NYS? At least during the warm months.
www.cnyreptileshow.com

I'm not sure what New York's laws/regulations regarding private ownership of box turtles specify. If you can legally own an Eastern Box Turtle (Terrapene carolina carolina), that would be the logical choice because they are native to New York and are, therefore, acclimated to the local weather patterns. Check with your state wildlife agencies about permits, and whether or not it's possible to acquire and keep a captive bred specimen of an endemic species. There may be distictions made between acquiring specimens in state vs. out of state, wild caught vs. captive bred, etc. Maybe some of the other posters from New York who have knowledge and experience of local regulations will chime in.

Thank you, I will look into that. I had not considered the possibilty that I could perhaps aquire them legally via another state and or with a permit.
I had the rather narrow veiw of I know they cant be sold at a NY show.
www.cnyreptileshow.com

Since it is illegal to keep Eastern box turtles, for that matter any of the Terrapene species, your best bet would be to get in line to get a temperate Asian species like C. flavomarginata (Chinese or yellow-margined or C. galbinifrons (flowerback or Indochinese). These turtles can spend the warm months outside and brought indoors in the cold months.

I just looked at the New York DEC regulations and changes/additions that were made in 2005 concerning ownership of reptiles. It is no longer "legal" to collect, own, possess, buy, sell, etc. any member of the genus Terrapene, whether captive bred or not. The regulation is absurd on the face of it, if nothing else, for it's absolute unenforceability. The DEC will never (and couldn't possibly, even if they wanted to) attempt to look for violators. The only way you would ever get in trouble for owning a pet box turtle is if there is a formal complaint, and the only way that would happen is if you stand on the roof of your house and scream "Come and get me, I have a box turtle!" If you have a hundred of them, or have a commercial operation going, that's something else. If I lived in NY, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to cross the state line to acquire a captive bred baby box turtle for a pet. This is a Draconian regulation and another example of your government overreaching it's authority and meddling in your life. These regulations are harmful to conservation efforts, not helpful. Captive breeding should be promoted, not discouraged, if we're really interested in reducing the impact of the pet trade on wild populations.

While I can not and will not publicly support intentional breaking of a law, I do agree with you mj that an exceptional clause should and needs to be made to support, encourage, and facilitate legal large profesional and even hobbiest captive breeding programs and the aquisition and keeping of CBB animals for pets, even if some form of proof and/or permit were reguired, anything less is simply antiquated and not in the best interest of conservation and as you also stated unenforcable at the household level.
Jeff
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You got your regius's to the wall, man!
1.0 pastel Python regius
0.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
0.2 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.1 Ambystoma tigrinum
1.1 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.1 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
1.1 heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus

FYI, Eastern box turtles have had protected status in NY since 1905.

Crossing state lines to acquire one would probably just make that person a multiple offender.

Then there would be two states involved that don't care about an individual who keeps a box turtle for a pet. These regulations use a shotgun approach that is intended to hinder wide-scale trade in protected reptiles. Private small-scale individual pet owners, unfortunately, get caught in the scattershot. If you want to keep a pet turtle and you're responsible about where you acquire it, how you take care of it, etc., then you shouldn't have to deprive yourself out of fear of being caught by some overly obtrusive state agency. They can't even begin to enforce the regulations requiring dog licenses, so how in the world can they keep track of every schmo with a pet turtle? They can't.

I've worked for a state government agency in Maryland for 25 years and have seen these kinds of regulations and their lack of enforcement up close and personal.

This excerpt from the Western New York Herpetological Society website pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject:

"The DEC (Dept. of Environmental Conservation) is not actively searching for these banned animals. The last thing the overworked and understaffed DEC needs is another law to enforce, however law enforcement officers in New York State will be required to enforce the law if a complaint is filed. Complaints will most likely be filed as a result of a bite, a domestic dispute or a flagrant violation."

If you don't let your turtle bite anybody, don't get in a custody battle over your turtle, and don't sell turtles at a stand on your front lawn, chances are overwhelmingly in your favor that you'll never have a visitor from the DEC or your local law enforcement agency. I wouldn't advise anybody to break the law, but some laws (like this one) are being broken every day, across the country, and the people breaking them aren't desperados, they're just responsible pet owners minding their own business. In this case, the DEC ought to do the same.

yup good ol NY, I moved from NY recently to NC alot b/c of herp laws. and better herps here. I contacted the DEC was told it was illegal to own any turtle native or native reptile species for that matter and after much searching and q's I still never came up with answer I wanted, and needed as I had my spotted turtles prior to the law change, I was never able to get an answer and releasd my LTC spotted turtle of about 15 years. kids picking up a painted turtle and keeping it are breaking the law, ridiculous and I agree totally un enforceable. get what you want just don't shout from your roof. my 2 cents or you could always move to another state...til they change regs
wayne

You might not be aware of this, but there is a KS forum devoted to such discussions (see link below).
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