Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok I'm new I need some help on morphs such as how do you make
Moonglows. Sunglows. Ghost. Snow Arabesque aberant and etc.. What's the difference between a hypo a salmon and a pastel all seem to be rather similar.. Please forgive me I'm just trying to understand and am fairly new Thanks for any help on the definitions
Jbugg

Moonglows are a combination Hypomelanistic, Anerythristic, Albino. Also known as Hypo Snow, Anery Sunglow, or Albino Ghost (though I highly doubt you'll ever see those labels). To produce one both parents must at least be heterozygous for Anery and Albino, they may be homozygous or heterozygous but each parent has to carry both genes. Since Hypomelanism is dominant in boas only one parent has to carry it. There are varying odds of producing a Moonglow depending on the pairings.

Sunglows are Hypomelanistic Albinos. Again both parents must carry the same Albino gene in some sort, and one must carry the Hypo gene.

Ghost is the same thing as Sunglow, but switch Anery in for Albino.

Arabesques are a dominant pattern mutation, one parent must have the trait to pass it on.

All Salmons are Hypos, but not all Hypos are Salmons. Salmons are a bloodline of Hypos started by Rich Ihle of Salmonboa.com. The mutation is compatible with other Hypos, there are other names out there such as Orange-tails which are from Jeff Gee's line. Most Salmons and Hypos have been bred into Colombian boas and Colombian morphs, though in origin they are Panamanian.

Pastels are defined by a reduction in melanin, less so then Hypos. This reduction in melanin may cause an increase in color that would otherwise be masked by dark pigments. Different lines produce different results. This is not a single gene mutation and would probably best be defined as a polygenic trait, in that multiple genes are responsible for the appearance of the boas. Pastels for the most part are the product of selective breeding.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

Can somebody help me out on the "Harlequin" line?
Originated by?
When?
Defined as?
Who's breeding/selling?
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

>>Can somebody help me out on the "Harlequin" line?

Follow the link at the bottom of the page

>>Originated by?

Tim Magee, Rainshadow Ranch

>>When?

1997

>>Defined as?

Tim defines as "non-recessive, variably expressed characteristics". This line tends to produce animals with high coloration, striping or other pattern aberancies in the saddles.

>>Who's breeding/selling?

Quite a few people, including myself (grin). I'm very excited to have the opportunity to work with this line. Some people do not like it as much because it is hard to nail down what is actually going on, is it just line-bred characteristics? Some sort of co-dom or other genetic inheritance? Multiple genetics at work?

-April
(one of my hypo harlis below)

HarlequinBoa.net

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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

It isn't a single gene mutation, and that's what makes it confusing for so many. That and early information given by a multitude of parties that had no backing.

The Magee brothers are the ones to talk to. Tim and Brendon.

Traits associated with Harlequins are many, the best examples have terrific color and interesting patterns. The boa's exact lineage means everything with these boas, how well they are related to the Harlequin bloodline.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

Ok so that brings me to my next question.. Are all the albino lines compatible like sharp kahl etc..?

No, Sharp and Kahl Albinos are not compatible.

There are 11-13 different Albino mutations. Myself and Trey Schneller have begun looking in to testing for the causes of the mutations (for example which truly are or are not T-positive or T-negative) as well as for compatibility. Trey and a Ph.D Geneticist (who has asked to remain unnamed until the project is complete) are handling the lab work.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

That's cool. Keep us posted.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Glad to hear that somebody will be doing this. My guess is that either Sharp or Kahl albino is tyrosinase negative, but not both. And I'd ROTFLMAO if neither was T-negative.

By the way, caramel albino looks a lot like pinkeyed dilute in mice to me. That's something to try comparing.

Paul Hollander

I personally dont think its fair to say that Sharp and Kahl are not compatible 100%, no if, and or buts because of one breeding. The breeding wasnt even 2 homozygous albino's, it was a sharp to a het kahl, for all we know that het could have not been a het.
Was the female a proven het kahl albino??
Has anything else ever been done with the 2 lines that I'm not aware of??

It would be intresting to see what comes of a visual (sharp) X visual (Kahl) pairing. And if in fact they are not compatible it would be intresting to see what came of the double hets. I undersatnd the confusion it "could" cause, but I think there's a pretty obvious difference between the 2, maybe not as much as babies, but I think after 6 months to a year, they should be easily picked out as what line they're from.
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You are what you repeated to do, excelence is not an act, but a habit......... (Aristole)

>>I personally dont think its fair to say that Sharp and Kahl are not compatible 100%, no if, and or buts because of one breeding. The breeding wasnt even 2 homozygous albino's, it was a sharp to a het kahl, for all we know that het could have not been a het.
Was the female a proven het kahl albino??
Has anything else ever been done with the 2 lines that I'm not aware of??

>>It would be intresting to see what comes of a visual (sharp) X visual (Kahl) pairing. And if in fact they are not compatible it would be intresting to see what came of the double hets. I undersatnd the confusion it "could" cause, but I think there's a pretty obvious difference between the 2, maybe not as much as babies, but I think after 6 months to a year, they should be easily picked out as what line they're from.
Boas By Klevitz

My full post didn't show.
I was agreeing with "jerseyserpents".Plus we'll soon have an idea about the Sharp gene which probably has some T positive influence.Matuszak is breeding his Sharp Sunglow with his T positive male(same as VPI line) boa.Lar M
Boas By Klevitz

But it is.

There was a breeding another did to combine the Carmel/Boawoman Hypo Gene and Kahl gene. Now with the Sharp strain that just produces Paradigms. No such result with the Kahl strain. Thus, not compatible.

Gene compatibility testing in the lab should not be difficult to do.

And I'll take anyone's bet that the Sharp proves T-positive. And the Kahl T-negative.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

>>But it is.

There was a breeding another did to combine the Carmel/Boawoman Hypo Gene and Kahl gene. Now with the Sharp strain that just produces Paradigms. No such result with the Kahl strain. Thus, not compatible.

>>Gene compatibility testing in the lab should not be difficult to do.

>>And I'll take anyone's bet that the Sharp proves T-positive. And the Kahl T-negative
Boas By Klevitz

I'm doing something wrong when posting.here is my question:
I'm confused Chris help me understand here? How does the BW.Caramel breeding paired with a Kahl Albino prove that the Sharp Strain is incompatible with the Kahl entirely? I'm sure they are incompatible.Although as stated "There has been no Homoszygous Kahl to Sharp pairing".Therefore we do not know conclusively .We only know Kahl paired with BW.caramel are incompatible.By the way I never heard of the "Carmel/Boawoman Hypo Gene and Kahl gene" pairing? Although it's not unusual that I didn't hear about it.I was forced offline far longer then was suitable over the past "year 1 1/2".I understand the implication but The "BW caramel"& Kahl pairing just proves those two genes are incompatible right? Lar M
Boas by klevitz

The BWHypo/Carmel morph is compatible with the Sharp strain, they are allelic mutations, that is why they produce the Paradigm when bred together. Because the Carmel X Kahl did not produce a visual compatible morph along those same lines, simple transitivity means that Kahl is not Compatible with Sharp.

I hope that clears it up.

The only reason the Carmel example works is because of the Paradigm phenomenon.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

Thanks Chris. For the record I completely sgree that the Sharp strain and Kahl strain are two different T & T- Albino Boas. I'm just very curious about the breeding of the two lines Homozygous to Homozygous. One never knows the real anwer to the experiment until the experiment is done.Maybe there would be some interesting results.Thanks Lar M
Boas By Klevitz

"two different T & T- Albino Boas" "That was "T Plus" & "T Neg" Albino Boas"

Lar M