Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First of all, which are the snakes does this possible ban have an effect on?

Assuming boas are included, if I want to get serious about breeding and start making some big investments, should I consider staying away from the snakes that may get banned? I wouldnt want to spend a lot of money on boas only for in a couple years I cant sell my collection due to legallity issues. I was thinking of playing it safe and investing in ball pythons instead. What do you think of this for myself and other people who are interested in breeding and starting a small business?

Thanks,

Mat

First of all, which are the snakes does this possible ban have an effect on?

The proposed ‘fact-finding’ legislation would apply to all members of boas & pythons

Assuming boas are included, if I want to get serious about breeding and start making some big investments, should I consider staying away from the snakes that may get banned?

I would suggest that you only keep reptiles that you personally enjoy. Attempting to keep reptiles simply for profit will lead to a great deal of frustration.

I wouldnt want to spend a lot of money on boas only for in a couple years I cant sell my collection due to legallity issues.

I believe the proposal would only limit interstate commerce…meaning you could still sell boas & pythons…but only within your state.

I was thinking of playing it safe and investing in ball pythons instead. What do you think of this for myself and other people who are interested in breeding and starting a small business?

Breeding & selling reptiles as a business is extremely risky & challenging. There can be many unpredictable factors & lots of expenses before clearing a profit. As for Ball Pythons…consider that some ball python morphs a few years ago were $10,000 and up…..now can be purchased for $300. Compare that to a Hog Island boa a few years ago priced at $200….can still be sold/purchased for $200. Overall, the question as to which is a better investment, boas or pythons, comes down to personal opinion and one's experience. There are some articles floating around the internet about the pros/cons of starting a reptile business but I can't recall the sites I've seen them

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Sincerely, Jason
www.NortheastSnakes.com
NortheastSnakes@verizon.net

"Python, Boa and Eunectes genera" are included in the legislation. You can view some official documents at:

Link

I agree with everything carl3 said above. From a business standpoint, imo it would be a bad choice to "invest" in any snakes, much less large constrictors. I think it's difficult enough to make money at all breeding snakes even under ideal conditions, but now with the Animal Rights extremists pushing for more and more restrictions on herps (and especially snakes), I think it would be nearly impossible. I'm not up on the Ball Python market, but I do know there is no shortage of breeders, and if the larger constrictors are banned, you would have even more competition, and much of it from big names who are already established.

Again, just my opinion, but I'd keep the snake thing as a hobby, and invest money in education, career, mutual funds, IRA, etc.

Thanks,
Ed

>>First of all, which are the snakes does this possible ban have an effect on?
>>
>>Assuming boas are included, if I want to get serious about breeding and start making some big investments, should I consider staying away from the snakes that may get banned? I wouldnt want to spend a lot of money on boas only for in a couple years I cant sell my collection due to legallity issues. I was thinking of playing it safe and investing in ball pythons instead. What do you think of this for myself and other people who are interested in breeding and starting a small business?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Mat

I don't think Ball Pythons are a very good investment. Jusy MY opinion.
Not real sure about the furure of boas.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Don't back down because of a "proposed" law. If we all did that we wouldn't be keeping any of these animals in captivity. I'm sorry guys, but this doom and gloom mentality is getting old. Keep the animals that are within your capabilities, and fight for that right to do so. Simple right?

I didn't see any "gloom and doom", just sound *business* advice.

Thanks,
Ed

>>Don't back down because of a "proposed" law. If we all did that we wouldn't be keeping any of these animals in captivity. I'm sorry guys, but this doom and gloom mentality is getting old. Keep the animals that are within your capabilities, and fight for that right to do so. Simple right?

Disclaimer: I didn't read previous responses before writing this.

Now, there is no ban bill written to even be voted on. They (USFWS) are collecting information that could lead to inclusion of species from the genera Python, Boa, and Eunectus into the Lacey Act. This would prohibit importation as well as sale across state lines of the species affected.

Personally I feel if anything, buy your collection now so you have them "IF" something ever gets passed. You won't be able to get anything after the fact.

There is no "ban".

There is no bill that is in the works, yet.

The species affected are all species under on of the 3 listed genera. Meaning:
Boa constrictor ssp.

Python regius
Python curtus
Python breitensteini
Python brongersmai
Python reticulatus ssp.
Python molurus ssp.
Python anchietae
Python sebae ssp.
Python timorensis

As well as the 4 species of Anaconda.

So that translates to all Boa constrictors, subspecies of Amarali, Imperator, Constrictor, Sabogae, Nebulosa, Orophias, Occidentalis, Longicauda, and if they were in captivity Ortonii.

Ball Pythons; Angolan, Blood, Short-tail, and Borneo Pythons; Reticulated, Af-rock, and Indian complexes; and Timor Pythons.

So you can also see that the proposal has horrible flaws even if they tried to justify it. Because those species are so vastly different, they just happen to be lumped under the same genus. Heck, boa constrictors are all the same species but the subspecies are vastly different and even within one subspecies you have so many natural variances that they might as well not even be related.

This year I will be acquiring whatever I can as far as boas go, because I may not be able to in the future.

Your safety species Ball Pythons would be included as well.

Keep everything in focus during election time, vote for candidates who are not creating MORE government. More government is the problem in this country. I'm entitled to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Well this hobby is enjoyable, and keeping these animals which pose NO risk to the PUBLIC is one of my civil liberties.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

As far as your last statement with regard to election of the "More Government/Less Government" argument goes -- The "Less Government" people are the ones that have been in office the past 2 election cycles. They are the ones that have been proposing and enacting the "More Government" with "Less Individual's Rights", so I'm not so sure it's as simple as all that.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Who's in congress, the ones that pass laws?
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

The Republican Party has held a majority in both houses of Congress until the last Congressional elections.
Republicans were voted out of the majority in both houses at that time. Mr. Bush has finally decided to use his power of the pen to veto legislation effectively, as the Senate is nearly evenly divided between Republican and Democrat, therefore unable to achieve a 2/3 majority to overrule his vetoes.
It's that simplistic mindless ideologue mentality that has our country throwing away it's future. Let's put away the shovel. The hole is deep enough.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

To the original poster, I agree with the others. Get the animals you want, keep them as pets, and enjoy them.

As for the politics discussion that is critical to the context of the original question, I just want to toss in my $0.02 and encourage people to get involved in this election cycle, because it's critically important for the future of our country (and specifically, our right to keep the pets of our choice!) that we have politicians who respect freedom and liberty making the laws.

The truth is that both the Republicans (Bush et al.) and the Democrats (majority of the legislative branch) are proponents of big government. As for Bush, he ran on a platform of small government at home and non-interventionism abroad, but has done the exact opposite while in office - just look at the massive new bureaucracy that is the Department of Homeland Security, the fiscally irresponsible Medicare prescription drug benefit, the expansion of No Child Left Behind, and the nation building going on in Iraq. The Democrats of course are no better, calling for Universal Healthcare, Universal Pre-K, and Universal Voluntary Public Service (that's an Obama program... I'm still trying to figure out how voluntary and universal go together).

The point is that if we expect to have laws that reflect the principles on which America was founded, in this case laws that allow us to keep the pets of our choice, we need to pay close attention to how we cast our votes. As John said, it's not as simple as Republican vs. Democrat - picking between people who legislate morality and people who legislate charity isn't a real choice of Big vs. Small Government in my opinion. Vote for candidates who respect life, liberty, and property rights. The only presidential candidate who respects these fundamental rights and is a true small government guy is an old-school Republican, Ron Paul.

As Chris noted though, the law makers of our nation are the members of Congress, and if you look carefully there is probably a candidate in your congressional district who is a champion of life, liberty and property rights. The Libertarian party is full of them, but there are also some (although very few) in the Republican and Democrat parties. Do your research, get involved in this election cycle, and talk to your neighbors, family and friends about it. The Congressional elections are a million times more important than the Presidential election in my opinion, so make sure you get out and vote in them.