Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I might be picking up a female stillwater hypo bull. I truly love these snakes, they are as beautiful as anything out there.

Now, a question for you guys!

Is it wrong to pump my male albino whitesided into her???

First, let me say a few things.

I believe that it is essential that we keep animals from this bloodline PURE and keep a pure well documented pedegree.

With that said, there is way to small of a bloodline to continue inbreeding these animals generation after generation.

And, if you are going to outcross it and loss the locale status, why not make some cool morphs!

Also, let me say that all offspring would CLEARLY be sold as non-locale animals.

What do you guys think? I am all for locale animals, I LOVE them, but when the pool of blood becomes too small you need to bring in something else.

Serious and honest opinions will be appreciated!

Hey Kemper
I'am totaly with yeah . I'am into locality bloodlines too but I'am also in to color morphs . I see nothing wrong with doing so as long as it is not called a Whitesided Stillwater Bull .

Jason

I totally agree with you. I was not sure if I would get stoned for posting that, let alone doing it LOL. Take Care

that carries a hypo gene? A couple of the morph bloodlines carry a hypo gene. I don't see anything wrong with breeding the male to a Stillwater hypo. I don't know if the Stillwater hypo gene and the hypo gene in the morph bulls are allelic. Breed them if you want to produce morphs. If you want to strengthen the bloodline, try and get a normal Stillwater bull or an Oklahoma bullsnake. I'm not sure if the Stillwaters were actually collected in Stillwater city limits or if it was the closest town to call out for locality. If the founding breeders were rescued from a rattlesnake roundup, they may have been collected somewhere in the roundup limits. Not questioning the locality, just didn't know if they were actually collected in Stillwater city limits. Breed your axanthic male to her when he gets old enough.

>>I might be picking up a female stillwater hypo bull. I truly love these snakes, they are as beautiful as anything out there.
>>
>>Now, a question for you guys!
>>
>>Is it wrong to pump my male albino whitesided into her???
>>
>>First, let me say a few things.
>>
>>I believe that it is essential that we keep animals from this bloodline PURE and keep a pure well documented pedegree.
>>
>>With that said, there is way to small of a bloodline to continue inbreeding these animals generation after generation.
>>
>>And, if you are going to outcross it and loss the locale status, why not make some cool morphs!
>>
>>Also, let me say that all offspring would CLEARLY be sold as non-locale animals.
>>
>>What do you guys think? I am all for locale animals, I LOVE them, but when the pool of blood becomes too small you need to bring in something else.
>>
>>Serious and honest opinions will be appreciated!

Terry you bring up a good point about the other strain of hypo and whether it is alelic with the stillwater trait. If not compatable, the two types of hypo bred into a single line could result in confusion down the road. I'd hate to see what happened with albino black rats some years ago happen to hypo bulls. As so many bull morphs are het for something else, its hard to say where it might go. This may sound ironic coming from me but the best route to go on outcrossing the stillwater trait might to to other locality stock or line bred stock. Could you imagine the contrast of the stillwater strain impressed onto bulls from northern locals? It might take a few generations to get there but Wow!

to other locality stock. I looked at the Oklahoma reptile laws and bullsnakes aren't protected or illegal to collect. You can have up to 6 bullsnakes. You do need a breeder permit to breed. I would try and pick up an Oklahoma locale bullsnake. Take a Colorado or Montana bullsnake and breed to the stillwater and you might get some great looking hypo bullsnakes as you mentioned. You can call them TonyD hypo bullsnakes so we know which hypo bloodline they are.

>>Terry you bring up a good point about the other strain of hypo and whether it is alelic with the stillwater trait. If not compatable, the two types of hypo bred into a single line could result in confusion down the road. I'd hate to see what happened with albino black rats some years ago happen to hypo bulls. As so many bull morphs are het for something else, its hard to say where it might go. This may sound ironic coming from me but the best route to go on outcrossing the stillwater trait might to to other locality stock or line bred stock. Could you imagine the contrast of the stillwater strain impressed onto bulls from northern locals? It might take a few generations to get there but Wow!

Really wish I could take credit for that strain but the honor goes to Ginter. I'm going to try and give him a run for the money on the reds though. LOL

a different locale bullsanke, then you'd want to call them something else when you start producing hypos from the new parents. You want some way to let everyone know these aren't the Ginter Stillwater hypo bulls anymore. You would also like to differentiate them from a certain red bull strain if you use a red bull to breed to the Stillwater.

>>Really wish I could take credit for that strain but the honor goes to Ginter. I'm going to try and give him a run for the money on the reds though. LOL

I wouldn't have any problem with it Red. IMHO there exists a clear line between keeping and maintaining locality lines and morph production that most recognize. The Stillwater line has already been outbred outside of locality lines anyway. I plan on breeding my line of reds into stillwaters next year. The problem becomes what to call them. After we start crossing Stillwaters into other strains perhaps we should call the "trait" Type II hypo to avoid confusion with locality lines.

Thats a good Idea , change the name once outcrossed into different morphs

Jason

an honest question. I gave you my honest opinion, but I haven't seen an answer to my question. Is the albino whitesided male het for hypo? It makes a big difference in an honest answer Kemper. To me, that's the concern you should worry about. It's the one that would worry me.

>>I might be picking up a female stillwater hypo bull. I truly love these snakes, they are as beautiful as anything out there.
>>
>>Now, a question for you guys!
>>
>>Is it wrong to pump my male albino whitesided into her???
>>
>>First, let me say a few things.
>>
>>I believe that it is essential that we keep animals from this bloodline PURE and keep a pure well documented pedegree.
>>
>>With that said, there is way to small of a bloodline to continue inbreeding these animals generation after generation.
>>
>>And, if you are going to outcross it and loss the locale status, why not make some cool morphs!
>>
>>Also, let me say that all offspring would CLEARLY be sold as non-locale animals.
>>
>>What do you guys think? I am all for locale animals, I LOVE them, but when the pool of blood becomes too small you need to bring in something else.
>>
>>Serious and honest opinions will be appreciated!

The male is not het for hypo THAT I KNOW OF. I will email you a little more.. Take It Easy

frying and loosing all my data, etc. Thanks for the answer. I look forward to seeing what the offspring look like if you breed them.

>>The male is not het for hypo THAT I KNOW OF. I will email you a little more.. Take It Easy

The adult female ended up being a MALE!!! Ugghhhhhhhhhhh

There is always next year!

-Kemper