Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Today there were three things in the corner of my western hognose's tank. Fecal matter, urates, and what looked like a furball that a cat would throw up. I've never seen that last thing before. Truth is, I'm not even certain which end it came out of. The timing and placement would indicate passage, but the appearance does not. I even sniffed it. Didn't smell great, but the odor was pretty mild, and her last feeding was on Sunday, five days ago. So it would appear that most of her hoppers got digested okay, but one way or another the fur gave her a little trouble this time. or maybe it's been building up? I don't know. I'm not concluding; I'm speculating.
I cleaned the cage thoroughly and gave her a soak. She seems normal, but I'm well aware of how little that often means. I've got two questions.
1. What was it? I mean, I know it was undigested fur, but how does one figure out which end it came from? Visually I'm leaning toward regurge, but situationally I find it odd that she'd choose to empty both ends into the same corner.
2. I usually feed her every six days. That means she's due tomorrow. I know if it's an actual undigested mouse you've got to skip a week, but furball rules are new to me. Should I go ahead and try? Or wait? And if I should wait, how long? She started begging two days ago, so I think it's time to upgrade the number of mice per meal again. Now I'm nervous about doing that right away, but I hate to leave her waiting too if she's obviously hungry.
So who's dealt with this before? It's too late in the day to talk to the vet, but the internet's always open.
-----
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python (Boots)
0.1 Western Hognose Snake (Bebe)
0.1 Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 Northern Diamondback Terrapin (Queequeg)

I have had this happen with my hogs as well.. And, i continue to feed with no problems..

Remember that captive hogs are eating mainly rodents and their wild counterparts are eating mostly toads,frogs, ect..

~ Mike Russo

What is your temp range? I imagine a nice warm 95-100 basking spot would allow for more efficient digestion, assuming you have an appropriate cool side as well.

All my hogs leave hairballs around their tanks and I have never had any problems.

You should check your temps. My hogs do not do that and feed eagerly every week. They digest it all...
Nick

The room she's in is never under 75. Plus underbelly heat, in a 40 gallon tank with lots of substrate, so gradient isn't a problem either normally. She did just go through a dehydrated period when the room got too warm for a while, so maybe the fur built up then. She never stopped eating during it, but her skin got very dry, she showed no interest in a moist hiding area, and her stools decreased in size. I finally just bought a slightly larger water dish, she enjoyed it for a few days, and then went back to ignoring it. Then, about a week later, the furball. So I guess just feed her tomorrow and keep an eye and nose on the tank?
People who are seeing them: Does size of mouse seem to matter? Today, on an empty stomach, she weighed 435 grams. She's about 30-31 inches, a year and a half old. She eats 3 hoppers (usually about 42 grams altogether) every six days. Since small animals have more surface area than large animals, I'm wondering if one larger mouse would have a lower hair to food ratio, and therefore be less likely to cause problematic buildup? I prefer using multiple small ones, because I can buy bulk that way and still use them up while they're reasonably fresh, but it wouldn't kill me to spend a few more bucks a week if it would keep her healthier.
-----
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python (Boots)
0.1 Western Hognose Snake (Bebe)
0.1 Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 Northern Diamondback Terrapin (Queequeg)

It sounds like your setup is fine..

Personally I am not a fan of several small meals instead of one appropriatly sized meal..

~ Mike Russo

As long as it just passes hair up that way, everything is fine. No snakes can digest hair, it is fiber, and comes out one way or the other.

Sounds like I might have been worrying too much. I know hair isn't digestible, but I'd just never seen it all clumped together like this before. This is my first hognose though.
-----
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python (Boots)
0.1 Western Hognose Snake (Bebe)
0.1 Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 Northern Diamondback Terrapin (Queequeg)

I feed mine a good sized meal every week. The temps are 85-90 on the basking side and 70-74 on the cool side. Mine eat on cue every time and poop out hair balls. Even the little guys do it. Sometimes it is hard to see it cause the hairballs blend in good.

I think you've hit the nail on the head about blending. I use undyed Carefresh bedding, so I've probably overlooked a lot of them.
-----
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python (Boots)
0.1 Western Hognose Snake (Bebe)
0.1 Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 Northern Diamondback Terrapin (Queequeg)

It is MUCH better to worry a bit too much once in a while then to not give a crap.

It is better to ask the question and learn. Then learn from a dead snake. And for feeding size, if your female is 400 grams she should be eating full size mice.

Well, I know she could. An adult mouse is no bigger to her at this size than a fuzzy was when I first got her. It's just that if I buy a bag of adult mice and only feed her one at a time, even if I only buy a 50-pack, some of them are going to be a year old by the time she finishes. So I worry about nutritional loss. At her absoliute lightest, my only other snake still weighs eighteeen pounds; not really a mouse eater. I could buy them one at a time, but I don't particularly trust the pet shops to keep track of how old their freezer stock is.
I could always kill my own if necessary, but is it? Besides ease of feeding (and I don't really find it all that hard to just put three hoppers in a bucket, add the snake, and let her do her thing) are there any advantages to upgrading? Sounds like the furballs are happening anyway even to ones that eat adults, so my square-cube hypothesis didn't pan out very well.
-----
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python (Boots)
0.1 Western Hognose Snake (Bebe)
0.1 Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 Northern Diamondback Terrapin (Queequeg)

Ya, I raise my own mice and rats so I don't have to buy them from anybody. If I buy them they cost way too much for me and the pet store around my area charges 10 cents less for a hopper compared to an adult.

These reports of hairballs are new to me. This was not my experience with Easterns being fed mice. I responded recently to a concern about feeding mice with hair, and none of this came up. This is a very interesting thread and one for the archives!
-----
Virginia Herping
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VaHS
Virginia Herpetological Society online store
http://www.cafepress.com/vaherpsociety

"The irrational fear of snakes is the only excuse a grown man has... to act like a complete sissy" - Colchicine

>>These reports of hairballs are new to me. This was not my experience with Easterns being fed mice. I responded recently to a concern about feeding mice with hair, and none of this came up. This is a very interesting thread and one for the archives!
>>-----

I get furballs from all of my snakes that eat mice/rats be they pythons or colubrids. The bigger/more frequent the meal, the more fur seen in the fecals. When feeding light, the less fur... makes sense (more furry food = more fur in the poop).

My easterns eat both mice and rats. I flip around the sizes depending on what I have (based on other snakes I am raising). They don't care if it's a full size mouse, hopper, fuzzy, or a pinky rat or what have you - they just want you to put FOOD of some type in their mouth and then hiss at you afterwards lol.
-----
DP