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Hoping I could get some opinions on a flagyl treatment. I have read and been told ranges all over the place. From 10 MG per KG to 40 mg per KG. Length period anywhere from once a week for 3 weeks to every 24 hours for 10 days. I have a large female BCI that I bred for the first time and have had her for 18 years. I suspected a parasitic condition and she was treated with panacure to rule out worms being the issue. She has been regurging and vomiting and Im suspecting giardia could be the culprit. I know a fecal exam would be best but I really dont have a vet I consider herp savy. I have decided a 20MG per KG for 5 days seems more realistic but would like to hear other keepers experience and opinions. Thanks Bryan

I think you're referring to Metronidazole. I'm pretty sure they are the same.
What works for me and you might try -- I mix one 250 mg tablet in one gallon of water and have that mixture available as drinking water for as long as it takes. A couple weeks to a month. Of course, you've got to mix it up fresh every other day or so, and using bottled water is probably better than tap water.
That's just my rough and dirty flying by the seat of your pants shotgun method. Take my advise at your own risk. Your snake's actually. Taking your snake to a qualified Reptile vet would be the proper and prudent thing to do.
I'm sure others have more technically accurate clinical advise.
In the case with my previous post medicating the sick ratsnake, Metronidazole was not used.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I was told if it is Flagyl 250 use 1mg/kg once a week for three weeks. I have used this on a boa once and the snake turned right around

In 1989 I had one Boa that had a case of diarrhea. I took a stool sample to my vet and he broke out a large volume that gives the recommended dosages for various medications. This book recommended, for Reptiles, that 250 mg/kg of Flagyl be used to treat the parasites that my vet found in the stool sample. This recommended dosage was in black and white, in this scolarly written book with the correct proven dosages as per the world leading Reptiles researchers and experts. This particular dosage was recommended by a world renowned Reptile researcher from a University in Florida.

I asked my vet if I could treat all my snakes with that medication as a precaution. He said sure and I set about treating everyone. The recommended dosages was to administer orally, 250 mg/kg and repeat once in two weeks. I did this and then the nightmare began.

About one week after giving the second dose, my larger Boas began to go crazy. That is the only way I could describe it. CRAZY! They were constantly on the move, biting themselves and striking wildly at any movement the saw. Over the next week I lost 22 adult Boas. This included at the time what was six of only about 12 known Peruvian Red Tails in the entire United States. To make matters worse, the one largest female was gravid. DEAD! 22 large adult animals which was most of the adults that I owned at the time. Great fun right?

This was a devastating loss to me and my little collection. Turns out that those levels of Flagyl in fact are toxic and the WRONG dosage to give Reptiles.

So, the world is jambed packed full of experts writing all kinds of dribble that is nothing more than guess work. It's just too bad that I am the one, and my Boas, that had to pay the ultimate price for this complete incompetence.

I haven't used it in quite some time, but I recommend 60 mg/kg given twice two weeks apart, when I do recommend it.
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Its crazy to read the responses below and no one is mentioning anything about the particular boa you are administering this drug to. In other words, dosages are being talked about, but without mention to the size and weight of the animal in question.

The way we use Flagyl (Metronidazole) is based on the weight of the animal. The rule of thumb is to weigh the animal. Take that number and then double it. Then move the decimal to the left 3 positions. So if a boa weighs 1000.0 grams, double that weight to 2000.0 grams and then move the decimal over to 2.0 cc's. This is how our vet taught us to use it. Sometimes we will admin. it twice, 2 weeks apart. Othertimes we have had to do this once a day for 5 days. It depends on how bad the stool sample was and what you are trying to kill. We (hobbiests) put our boas through alot of stress when we dont realize it and thats all it takes for one flagylid or protazoan in the system to bloom and become a major tummy ache for the boa.

The other important note on this drug is that no matter what, you should never administer more than 500 mg. to a boa. So whether you are treating a 40 pound boa or a 200 pound anaconda, you should never give them more than 500mg. at any one time.

It sucks that Jeff had to lose so many valuable animals based on documented literature. However, I have been with Rich for almost 7 years now and have followed this method above everytime I have had to use it and it works like a charm!

Good luck!
John

that is the dosage i have been told to use if it is Flagyl 125, and half that for full strength 250. We have really been all over the charts on this one though! If there is a herp worthy vet atleast a phone call away maybe they would be better to ask if you have access to the drug and can get a proper weight on your own. good luck

Tablet size (125, 250, etc.) doesn't make any difference. That is just the milligrams of metronidazole per tablet. Dosage based on number of cc's doesn't tell you anything either, unless you know the number of milligrams per cc present in the original solution. The true dosage is based strictly on milligrams per kilogram. You still always dose based on number of milligrams Flagyl needed for the specific body weight in kilograms. Most times the tablets will need to be cut according to the total dose needed for the weight of the snake. Current reptile dosage in almost all cases is 25 mg/kg in two doses 5 to 7 days apart. The old standard 100mg/kg dose has been found by some to be too high and dangerous. Also, do not dose by mixing in the snakes drinking water as this will give a major underdosing of the drug. Metronidazole is not a drug to be taken lightly as Jeff Ronne found out. It is relatively toxic and should be used with care in snakes. Daily dosing is definitely very risky, and 48 hour dosing is usually only used with Entamoeba infections and some enteric bacterial infections.

I am curious as to why you suspect giardia without a fecal exam. My bet is that if you did see flagellates, they are probably trichomonads, and not giardia. They look similar, but true giardia is pretty rare in boids. If you've had this animal for 18 years with no problems, and now are seeing regurges, I would definitely get a fecal done. Also, considering the length of time you've had her, most parasites are unlikely, however, I would have the fecal checked for cryptosporidia, especially if you are seeing diarrhea along with the regurges.

Kelly

Sad to hear that, Jeff. I agree with everything Kelly says, too.
In my defense, the larger the snake, the more it will drink.
Determine the snakes weight. Determine how much it drinks per opportunity. The dosage can then be backed out stoichiometrically to get the proper concentration of Metronidazole in solution per given volume of water. Probably way too much trouble my way. Personally, I don't think it takes very much at all to send the flagellates packing. Just sharing my experience and thoughts on the matter. Doen't mean I'm right.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I see your thinking on the drinking water, but it is just so difficult to control the dose concentration that way, and is highly likely for the dosage to be too low unless you had a really high water intake. Thanks again,

Kelly

Thanks for all the replys , I will try to explain the situation best I can. the reason I suspected giardia is due to a ball python in my collection that had very similar symptoms and was back on track with a treatment of flagyl. Jeff that really sucks that you had such a loss, this is what I was worried about !
and kelly thanks for pointing out the actual mg per cc as this was my next question. I was aware that her weight was the starting point for treatment but Im glad you brought it up. I have treated ball pythons before but never any of my boas and wasnt sure on the dosage for a large animal. The flagyl I have is a suspension liquid form at the rate of 250 mg per 5 cc. Her weight was 7kg . As john mentioned I believe a bloom has occured from stress of the breeding. I believs a 10- 20 mg per kg should be safe . 7kg x 10 would be 70 mg to 140 mg should be a safe dosage. So if I understand at 250mg per 5cc thats 50mg per cc.I belive a 2cc dosage should put me in the range of 10-20 mg per kg.
I will have a fecal exam done but Im really worried about her and would like to try something in the mean time. She is a great animal and I would hate to lose her. the whole reason I bred her was because of her age . I figured she has maybe another 10 years and would like to get some offspring just due to her calm temperment. I still woder if the male infected her or the stress was the cause? Thanks again for your opinions!!!!!!!!!!