Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,

I currently have my Savannah Monitor in Cypress Mulch as a bedding/substrate. I know the best thing to keep them in is dirt or soil.(If not please correct me) My question is what type would be most recommended for indoor use? Also, do I have to worry about putting them on a melamine snake cage from Boamaster (6' x 2' x 20" tall? I am concerned about rot and mold.

Any info would be greatly appreciated as well as comments.

Thank you,

Eric

This pic is him/her on Easter Day

I keep my argus monitors on sand from the local sand dunes. It works great and since it isn't dusty the animals look their best all the time.

Scott Austin

keep your sav on dirt that isn't too heavy in clay. sift it so all you get is the dirt and no pebbles/rocks/debris. you want something that can hold burrows and deep enough for them as well. i would recommend using anywhere between 8 inches and 24 inches worth of dirt. and no, as long as your dirt isn't wet, rather just moist, it shouldn't harm a melamine cage. although, if that style of cage will allow you to put a deep enough layer of dirt in there is another concern.

retic, your arguses look good. does that sand allow for them to burrow and hold those burrows intact?

Hey Swilson,

Great response, I appreciate you being so thorough. I was thinking then of maybe picking up some Top Soil, putting it in my stove (My wife is going to beat me for doing this) to kill anything in the soil. You think that should work?

I see what you’re saying with these cages as I don’t think I could accommodate that large of an amount of dirt. I was thinking about putting a very large plastic container inside and then filling it with the dirt to burrow. That way I can protect the melamine as well as the get enough dirt to burrow.

I have kept snakes for over 15 years but this is my first true attempt at keeping a monitor and I want him/her to be happy as the last home was lousy "See my pics under the picture forum, monitor"

Any comments are appreciated

Thank you again,

Eric

and what does the plain sand do for the monitor itself? how does "looking nice and not dusty" translate into good husbandry?

it's about the monitors, not about the keepers, right?

your Argus would go batshot crazy if you gave it some soil to dig and burrow in. it would be so happy it may even start grinning : )
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

i don't know what alternate universe some of these folks are living in, but monitors don't live in sand dunes, a plain sand substrate might look "neat" to a keeper, but couldn't be more inappropriate as a usable substrate.

using a soil, it may not be wet mud, but it should be moist, and a melamine cage isn't going to last 12 months, no matter how well you "seal it".

you don't have to sift, bake, or decontaminate your soil. if you do, you need to find another source for dirt.

if you want an easy to get soil, one that works well, digs well, burrows well, one that will help you learn about what makes a good soil, do the "Home Depot mix" of topsoil/sand/vermiculite in a 50/25/25 mix. all store bought, inexpensive, and it works well.

add moisture and play with it, see how much water to add. what is too much, what is too little.

once you use the HD mix for 6 months or more, you will start to get a feeling for what makes a good soil, and you can then explore your locally available choices, whether free to dig up or purchased.

check out our site's FAQ for more info on soil and other monitor related topics.

best of luck.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Hey Robyn,

I really appreciate your input and respect what you have to say. After reading about substrates today, actually right after my last post I ran to a local nursery and purchased 80lbs worth of Organic Top Soil. I put about 8-10¡¨ of soil down 85% of the cage, (- the water tub). My Savannah is really looking comfortable but has not yet explored the burrowing potential. I know that will only take time. I damped it with a spray bottle, enough to keep the humidity up, but not wet.

I will keep this updated as my monitor progresses with the Top Soil. Just to note, I had him/her in Cypress Mulch for the past few months and liked to dig in that. . The only problem with the Cypress is it does not hold burrow tunnels. ƒ¼ I had the cage 85% coated at 3-5¡¨ deep.

Thank you all again ļ

Eric

keep in mind that all soil mixes won't work. you can just dump in dirt and be off and running!

plain topsoil seldom works at all. you need some type of binding agent, like the sand component. that is why locally dug soils sometimes work, because they are a mix of different things.

you don't want clay. period.

you can put dirt in the cage, but if the monitor doesn't dig in it, it does you little good.

maybe it is the temps. too hot, too cold. maybe moisture levels. maybe it is the soil itself.

you have to play with the variables to get it right. that is why i suggest starting with the Home Depot mix, because it does work, and then you have something to learn from. there are DEFINITELY better soils than the HD mix, but if you don't know how to identify them, it is a moot point : )

if you monitor doesn't make good strong burrows, or doesn't dig at all, within a week or so, than you have more work to do : )
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Although my ackies have been doing great, mostly thanks to you guys here, finding a good soil has been driving me crazy. And I have been experimenting with everything: soils around my house(poor, and ended up being contaminated), infield mix (way too much clay that sticks to fingers) and so on. So, I'm going back to topsoil.

What is the brand name of the topsoil? I have been using one from Lowes, but it's hit or miss (it contains compost, and as far as i know that it just decomposing matter, but sometimes the soil just plain old wreaks foul).

Also, what have you heard about stone dust?

thanks...take it easy

topsoil should be just plain dirt. folks often get it confused with potting soil, which has additives like compost.

if you find one labeled topsoil that is not plain, definitely move to another brand. we get ours from a landscape wholesaler, it is a big pile of dirt three stories tall, no bags : )

i have purchased plenty of topsoil from Home Depot though, various brands, and i have seldom run into issues. just try a different brand.

as for stone dust, i am not specifically familiar. the problem with that type of product, i imagine, is similar to the issues we run into with the decomposed granite. on a microscopic level, the stone has sharp, cutting edges, and that can lacerate feet and skin when they are digging. that is not ideal : )
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

I am currently using stone dust. I found this material while walking through a landscaping yard searching for decomposed granite and decided to give it a go.

The material is very nice to the touch, you almost wouldnt think it is from rock, and would think its more of a dirt. I am not sure of its properties under a microscope as robyn says, perhaps it is not ideal, but it works well for me and the lizard seems to like it, Ill continue to play around with it.

After about 5 days he was just digging around in it, then one morning when I woke up...he was gone, and not in his hides, I found 3 holes in the substrate, and figured great! This stuff is widely available in my area (new jersey). I got 250lbs of it for about $3, of the "fine variety". It is grey in color.

I have had it for a month or so now, and my monitor is rarely ever out and about anymore. 80% of the time it seems like he is down below doing whatever he is doing!

awesome! my black throat has a pretty decent sized burrow, but seems to only retreat to it when he wants to sleep. when he's not sleeping, he's always out and about, digging, climbing, even swimming. oh, and not to mention basking and eating like a race horse.

hey man, hahah, nice to see u on here too...thanks again and I'll post some updated pics of my acks soon...they are/seem to be doing awesome.

You know I piped in on this one before and several people gave opinions contrary to my experience with that stuff. To the point that I wasn't sure we were even talking about the same substance. At the time it was being refferrd to as "de-composed granite" from what I have seen on home improvement shows. It was exactly what I always knew as stone dust. I worked on the grounds crew at one of New York state's 3 largest amusement parks for 5yrs. and before they started using pavers on their walkways they used this stuff exclusively. It has been about 13yrs since I worked at that park and jsut seeing the words "st*** du**(yes I hate this crap THAT bad.)makes me cringe in horror. I will probably have nightmares tonight. I can't imagine using stone dust for much of anything much less for monitors. It really sucks up moisture(part of the reason they used it I suspect as they were in the western adirondacks.) and then when it dries it is like concrete and you damn near need a jack-hammer to get it loose. And if you think we actually got a jack hammer to have to get it loose I've got a durian orchard just north of that park I'll sell you really cheap lol. I am not some kind of a wus who doesn't like maual labor I still do grounds work and landscaping and am known for my fondness of doing tuff work no-one else wants to do like digging holes/ditches and moving large branches/tree trunks. Axes mattocks and sledge hammers are my friends...and I think st*** du*** is horrible.I suppose if it works for you great (did I mention how horribly abbrasive this stuff is it will eat through your skin like I eat through bison steaks.) personally I think in the long run it's disadvantages will outweigh any advantages you might see from using it and you would be better off with your own formula for soil.

I know they use this material with pavers so we may be on the same page, I was just going to take a picture of it, but suprise my camera is broken. I will post one up when I speak with my sister later, hopfully you can tell me if it is the same material you speak of.

As for its abrasive qualities, i didnt feel it. It seems so nice and smooth to me, I just had to try it, and thus far its worked.

You are definately right, which I forgot to mention, it does suck moisture into it. At first this is quite recognizable, but the process stopped once it got to a light moisture level.

As for for the hardening I havnt had a concrete like experiance with it, but it does firm up after it has gotton very wet. I put it in virtually dry, it sucked in its own moisture, and from there I have dig-able substrate that is holding burrows.

I was also thinking of mixing it with topsoil or some nice dug up dirt...then again I was also thinking of just tossing in straight dirt which I have yet to do....

Ive got alot ahead of me...

Thanks,
Mike.

stone dust is a compactable material typically used for brick or stone walkways and patios.it does harden when its wet, compacted and dried.

I actually just turned the stone dust after I saw my monitor was out, on the very bottom it is pretty hard, I would imagine with time it only gets harder. I'll probably have to try some new things, either add dirt, to go to dirt 100%.

i thought stone dust contained large amounts of lime.

sooner or later robyn, but what is the deal with the vermiculite?

For some reason I remember vermiculite/perlite being thing included in potting soil and just generally things you wouldn't want in with your monitor, who might ingest them or for any other reason?

Pearlite could definitely be a problem particularly with smaller lizards. It could possibly cause impaction if their were large amounts of it in the soil. Vermiculite on the other hand is a different story. Both substances btw are basicaly benign from a toxicity standpoint. Both are products of volcanic eruptions from what I understand. Vermiculite however is made up of much smaller particles than pearlite and are quite different in nature to pearlite in spite of their similar origin(they come from different minerals). The only disadvantage to vermiculite which may not be so in monitor soil is it tends to compact easily (possibly good for burrows...not so good for plants although obviously a different application.) Oh yeah it has been found to contain small amounts of asbestos which doesn't worry me but may worry others. I have heard it recomended that you wear a dust mask when working with large amounts of vermiculite. Quite honestly if the asbestos thing was that much of a serious threat vermiculite would be off the market by now.btw The things in potting soil I would worry about would be the sterlite balls which could cause more problems than pearlite and those little liquid fertilizer balls God only knows what's actually in them and I definitely would want anything swallowing them.