Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Which of the two would be more valuable in a breeding collection:

Male Albino Jungle

Or

Male Motley

From potential on litters to value of production, thanks for any opinions.

I have one of each...while each would have their positives, I would almost say the Motley. This is because a Motley is a Motley their wont be any confusion about this and it would be an easier animal to sell. Also jungles seem to have lost a little bit of their value, still not to shabby thought. Jungles het Albino going for 1500 a shot not bad...motleys going for around 2500+...either way you cannot go wrong. When it comes down to it get an animal you want. That is what matters the most.


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Brandon Nixon

to breed them to.

If you have all Sharp Strain Albinos, the Jungle wouldn't help as much as it could.

The Motley could help anywhere, but only once (one gene) as opposed to the Albino Jungle.

The Albino Jungle has both a recessive gene
(more sound 'investment', maintains price longer, prevents over production too quickly, etc.)
and a dominant gene
(see results first time, making approx half the babies visible gene carriers, gives you the opportunity of a Super form, etc.)

The double gene carrier usually gives you more power, more leverage, and more opportunities.

Thing about this...

What if you bred either to an Albino, what would you get? About how much could they sell for and also help your future breeding project?

Same question, bred to a normal, or a hypo.

You'll get a wider variety of different offspring from the multiple gene carrier.

For example:

What if you bred them to an Triple Het Moonglow?

The Albino Jungle could produce 8 different snakes (that I couold think of split second).

The Motley would only produce 4.

Another thing to consider is that there are already quite a few super jungles out there... not as much with super motleys.

I think we still have lots of new stuff to make when crossing super motleys with other morphs, probably moreso than with super jungles.

Two great snakes, it's ultimately your choice.

Take care, Joe
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

That entire thread made perfect sense. The problem with Jungles though are problems somewhat found in the "True" Red-tail market. First, not all Jungles are EASILY identified. Most of the time if someone buys a Jungle from someone with a GOOD reputation with the Jungle morph, they have a hard time selling it down the road if they decide to get rid of it. To make it worse, if you have NO name and produce a litter of Jungles, GOOD LUCK selling them at MARKET price! Unless you get lucky and they're all picture perfect, no doubt about it, jungles, I'd imagine you'd have a much easier time selling motleys. When it comes to Jungles, it just seems limited to the outcome of the offspring in regards to your sales. The motleys on the other hand....looks like a motley 99.999% of the time and your arguemen/debate factor with potential buyers is pretty limited. The Red-Tail debate is gone...ie, are you SURE that's a Suriname? It sort of looks like a Guyana to ME....where did you get your breeders from, do you have pics, proof, etc. that these were hand picked out of a mudhole after a storm in Suriname??? Okay, I'll think about it! VS. Oh, cool, a motley!

to mention is how easy it would be to sell these animals in our current market conditions.

There seems to be more Jungles out there, which maybe one reason their price went down to what it is, but another thing is because of how affordable they were, so many have been produced.

Even if they drop more, they will still be yet more attainable by the average herper, so you may sell more of them or more easily (clear visuals, of course).

With Motleys, there is no mistake about it, and anyone would be able to sell one easier than a Jungle, but how many average Joe's can afford one at the current price?

The other thing is, if it kept it's value so high for so long, it may obviously be a better 'investment' overall, atleat for now.

I still think the Motley gene is almost untapped, and there will be LOTS of new things made, and new, different, solid colored snakes when we finally start making supermotleys crossed with other morphs.

How about a solid Red Boa? Or a Yellow Boa? or Orange? or Lavendar?

Just a solid, inky, pumkin Orange Boa Constrictor?!?!?

What about if crossing a super to a arab makes a pied? or something new all together?

I think we've barely scratched the surface with Motleys.

I believe the future of the motleys is going to be phenomenal.

NOTE TO ALL:
I'm trying to point out different ideas on both animals for now and for the future. I'm not favoring either as I have both and expect great futures for both projects.
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Hello, what about the Aztecs..? Only been around for 5 years and proven to be co-dominant producing an amazing super form. I know I'm biased so please don't be to harsh on me. Of the 2 you mentioned hands down the Motley. Take care. Andrew

Andrew,

Who doesn't want a Aztec? Anyone....exactly, they are awesome. I pretty much need one.
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Brandon Nixon

I'm a jungle guy. Identifying the jungle gene under the albino gene can be tricky apparently but there are all sorts of stuff you can make with it. Bred to just a DH sunglow you can make Junglows, sunglows, albino jungles and albinos while all the other stuff thats not albino will be 100% het albino. You cant go wrong with a motley either. Jungles and Motleys are both rad. If you buy what appeals to you then you will be a better salesman of its offspring

Scoria boa for sure!!! LOL

I agree big time. I so love the Scoria boa. Andrew

sounds good to me.

Just not practical for most people to spend several thousand dollars on snakes. If it is, then yeah, get some of everything!

.
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Nothing but a future for this market.
All those potential possibilities make me drool.
These snakes are so cool!
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I say go with what you like, lets just say you buy a boa because its the hottest thing on the market. What happens if that boa never reproduces at all, all the years, and hard work, and no monetary gain or at least your money back, bad scenario but it may happen. You might as well buy something that when you open the cage you say D@MN, I love that snake........and the rest will take care of itself.

Like I always say........what do I know.

Chris

I think the Motley has great potential by itself, with other morphs and with other morphs in the super form. I also like albino jungles but think if I were to buy one it would have to be a very aberrant
male which I think would increase the likelihood that the albino jungles that it produced would be recognizable.
Bill Kirby

That sure is one beautiful Motley.
Motleys are next on my list.
Just have to settle for "buying" my way to the top [of this Ponzi pyramid scheme] for now.
Hopefully some day I'll be able to "creatively produce" my way there.
It's so much more fun that way.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Just wait 2 more years,they'll be MUCH cheaper then
(if it takes that long):-

>>That sure is one beautiful Motley.
>>Motleys are next on my list.
>>Just have to settle for "buying" my way to the top [of this Ponzi pyramid scheme] for now.
>>Hopefully some day I'll be able to "creatively produce" my way there.
>>It's so much more fun that way.
>>jsc
>>-----
>>"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
>>John Crickmer
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TnK

I am not sure what MUCH means. Obviously given their genetics greater numbers should be produced and the price will drop. The big question is will there be a point at around $1500 where demand will outreach supply. I have sold motleys at Daytona for the last 2 years and I have had literally dozens of people tell me that when they get below $2000 they are going to buy pairs or trios. Also when the prices get lower many more people will buy females because there is a super form. If a viable Red Devil is produced this year that will only make the demand for females higher. One other factor is that many people with Motleys will do all of their breedings with other morphs so it will be harder to get Motleys that are not het for something and thus more expensive. Thus while I agree that prices will continue to go down it may not be quite as fast as some people think.
Bill

I'm new to the genetics and the morphology. Been gone a while.
Admittedly stupid when it comes to all the possibilities and combinations, but I've got to say -- for some reason I've got to believe Motley is one of those keystone morphs that you breed everything else to, to come up with so many fine new never seen boas.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Yes Sir, very valid point(s)
Same basic discussion/defense commentary was had in regards to the Albino/Sunglow vested supporters 2 years ago.
The albinos sold this last year would rival many a Sunglow from 05/06.Well below speculated prices,everyone had the same optimistic view of market futures then as well.

Having a proper understanding of how the game is played has helped many people avoid the heartbreak.Proper networking with in the hobby is the key.Many take this forum as the gospel,yet in the real world its nothing close.Daytona is not the pricing standard,if anything its a clue if your looking to move all of your animals and many do based on that.

With "Hobbyist" dominating the majority of the "market" the 4 digit investment animals will most likely continue to stack up.
The patient people will let the Big Dogs run their gigs and keep feeding all those animals,eventually something has to give and generally its the digits and decimal points.

Lots of very cool animals have been produced these last 5 years,but the prices"asked"for them severely degrade consumer interest of actual ownership by the majority.

One can learn volumes from the likes of PT Barnum and WalMart !

>>I am not sure what MUCH means. Obviously given their genetics greater numbers should be produced and the price will drop. The big question is will there be a point at around $1500 where demand will outreach supply. I have sold motleys at Daytona for the last 2 years and I have had literally dozens of people tell me that when they get below $2000 they are going to buy pairs or trios. Also when the prices get lower many more people will buy females because there is a super form. If a viable Red Devil is produced this year that will only make the demand for females higher. One other factor is that many people with Motleys will do all of their breedings with other morphs so it will be harder to get Motleys that are not het for something and thus more expensive. Thus while I agree that prices will continue to go down it may not be quite as fast as some people think.
>>Bill
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TnK

28 eMails seem to agree
You people need to chime in because YOUR VOTE COUNTS !

>>Yes Sir, very valid point(s)
>>Same basic discussion/defense commentary was had in regards to the Albino/Sunglow vested supporters 2 years ago.
>>The albinos sold this last year would rival many a Sunglow from 05/06.Well below speculated prices,everyone had the same optimistic view of market futures then as well.
>>
>>Having a proper understanding of how the game is played has helped many people avoid the heartbreak.Proper networking with in the hobby is the key.Many take this forum as the gospel,yet in the real world its nothing close.Daytona is not the pricing standard,if anything its a clue if your looking to move all of your animals and many do based on that.
>>
>>With "Hobbyist" dominating the majority of the "market" the 4 digit investment animals will most likely continue to stack up.
>>The patient people will let the Big Dogs run their gigs and keep feeding all those animals,eventually something has to give and generally its the digits and decimal points.
>>
>>Lots of very cool animals have been produced these last 5 years,but the prices"asked"for them severely degrade consumer interest of actual ownership by the majority.
>>
>>One can learn volumes from the likes of PT Barnum and WalMart !
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>I am not sure what MUCH means. Obviously given their genetics greater numbers should be produced and the price will drop. The big question is will there be a point at around $1500 where demand will outreach supply. I have sold motleys at Daytona for the last 2 years and I have had literally dozens of people tell me that when they get below $2000 they are going to buy pairs or trios. Also when the prices get lower many more people will buy females because there is a super form. If a viable Red Devil is produced this year that will only make the demand for females higher. One other factor is that many people with Motleys will do all of their breedings with other morphs so it will be harder to get Motleys that are not het for something and thus more expensive. Thus while I agree that prices will continue to go down it may not be quite as fast as some people think.
>>>>Bill
>>-----
>>TnK
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TnK

I agree, the Motleys is where it is at...they are awesome and people will continue to like them. A Motley isnt questionable, I currently have a Male Motley, a Motley het Anery poss het Albino girl, and a CA Motley poss het T-Pos...I also have a low expression Albino Jungle and 2 Jungle het Albino girls...and I still think Motleys would be the best way to go simply because a Motley isn't questionable.

There is a lot to still be done with the Motley...
Super Motleys
Albino Super Motleys
Anery Super Motleys
Ghost Super Motleys
Sunglow Super Motleys
Hypo Super Motleys
Super Hypo Super Motleys
Caramel Super Motleys
and the list goes on I am sure...

Granted with Jungles you have the same possibilities but you wouldnt have a single solid colored boa...Motleys still have a lot of room to create new animals.
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Brandon Nixon

Thanks to all who responded, I appreciate your opinions. I really would like either one, maybe leaning more towards the motley.

With a cool name like scoriaboa do you plan on getting a scoria, looking forward to your reply thanks,Jeff@scoriaboa.com

With a cool name like scoriaboa, do plan on getting a scoria to breed to those cool morphs? Thanks Jeff@scoriaboa.com

Yes I sure plan to, as soon as you put some for sale that aren't $50K for a male and $20K for females.

This could be the year, keep your fingers crossed.

Beautiful Motley! Very nice, I have always wanted a Motley but the same goes for the Albino Jungle. Valid points taken, thanks for the help.