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i've been having a conversation with a guy below and he got upset when i told him heat rocks were no good.... what is everyone else take on the situation? i say no... b/c for one reason the snake escaped from the "gap" from the cord... and it can burn an animal... anyone else?? i'm not trying to be rude... i just want everyone opinion.
thanks

~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

Our rescue:
0.1 green iguana about 3 1/2 feet (Spikey) **PENDING ADOPTION**

I've seen photos of animals severely burned from hot rocks. Having said that, I've been using them for decades without any problems.

Use of a hot rock should not compromise cage security. There are ways to get around that, like cutting a notch in the cage lid for the cord or putting the rock under the tank.

Some hot rocks need to be put on dimmers, because they get too darn hot. As always, a themometer should be used to make sure there's a hot spot in the mid- to upper 80s.

Hot rocks are fine, as long as they're used correctly, though you might be surprised how many snake keepers don't use thermometers - no matter what heating method they implement.

Tim

Third Eye

I agree with Tim; a hot rock, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. It is really no different than an UTH when you think about it. The big difference, I think, is that people usually use thermostats/rheostats with UTH and not with hot rocks. The key, as Tim said, is what the temperature is and how accurately it is measured. As long as your temps are OK than I am not sure it matters what method is used to achieve them. Personally, I prefer overhead heat whenever possible. But that is just me.

Rob

Who ever said I was upset?

I simply pointed out exactly what the 2 replies above this one stated.

My hot rock is on a thermostat.

I also pointed out that an under tank heater will not penetrate a 3/4 inch piece of MDF board.

I even said thank you.

Peace,
Wayne A. Harvey

The first "hot rocks" (I remember in about 1972) was a brick with a ceramic 10 ohm resistor in it. I will not give the values as I don't want people trying to make them that are unqualified.

Using these rocks and selling 100's I never saw an animal hurt. NOW, this does NOT mean there wasn't? I was a small sample of it's entire use.

We finally had a few die, so I busted them apart. Finding this old old style resistor at a surplus place in downtown Cleveland, I made my own personal ones. Many with 2 and even 3 resistors. But they were large rocks made of cement and a secret liquid. Ok it was water. Also mine were thick, up to 3", with the resistor always near the bottom. The placement and the natural old brick and cement and aggregate allowed an EVEN and THROUGH distribution of heat over the outer surface of the rocks.

Others I know made various rocks. All using natural types of materials. Unless the ceramic resistor was near the surface, I personally never saw and issue. Again that said, I did not follow up with very rock.

The new rocks that I have seems are a polymer or plastic. The heat does NOT seem to get to the surface evenly, plus they are tiny. To heat a 30 gallon tank one would normally use a 100 watt bulb. Using that as a scale of heat to be generated to create a gradient heat pattern, a hot rock should be similar, even if inside the cage. Fact, heat does not rise, cold air is denser than warm and drops and pushes it up. So the rocks heat would mainly go straight up. We figured this out long ago, and used to cover the aquarium top on the end where a heat rock was.

All that said, the old rocks were not bad if use for auxiliary heat or you custom made your own.

The new ones I would not hit a dog in the arse with!
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

>>>"Fact, heat does not rise, cold air is denser than warm and drops and pushes it up."

Hmmm, I realize the point you're trying to get across about the "Hot Rocks",.....but if I put my finger over a lit match, I think I'll definitely get burned from the heat rising off of it, and not the cooler air going down.

Also, if I put my finger over a lit match right now to prove this point to myself,......I would be a complete idiot!!!..LOL!

Seriously though,....when heat rises from an isolated source/object, the air is then replaced with the cooler "ambient" air rushing in from the sides,and above, and by the same token,...if a heat rock is placed in one end of a tank,...the same amount of warm air going up, will be replaced by cooler air from the surrounding area(path of least resistance).

I don't mean to come across as a Mr."Know-it-all" at the science fair, but like the well-known term implies,...."what goes up, must come down"...LOL!

please,..... don't HATE me!, Big Tom!....I'm just the messenger!hahaha!

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Not a Mr "know it all" And I do take offense to those words.

It's the way was taught the fact of "heat" on an object. As heat niether rises ot fall, but the object does.

Some thing can not move on it's own. Look it up, or not. Warm air is pushed by the denser cooler air.

And I thought I had helpful info on the hot rock issue.

if you are the messanger,, who was the sender?
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

I mis read your post. I truly am sorry for that reply. I just woke up again, and thought I read you called me "mr know it all"

Sorry again.. I've been away on some heavy meds, barely able to do my basic stuff. I guess the new meds are not much better.

Tom,,,, hopefully smaller soon.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

I would personally shy away from the poly rocks too.

The Zoo Med I bought is actually quite nice and made from a brick like material, and I don't think my corn snake worries too much about the physics. (or how much his heater costs)

In fact this whole thread started because a well intended poster read the word "heat rock" on an unrelated thread.

I tried to explain as under tank heaters were repeatedly shoved at me, is that I build my enclosures using very thick MDF, and a UTH would not penetrate through wood that thick.

Most readers never saw anything below line two of the post.

Peace,
Wayne A. Harvey
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1.2.9 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garter Snakes
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - common Garter - Princess
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua"
0.1.10 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly Racers
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
0.1.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
1.2.0. Feline"Felix" "Kaja" & "Silver"
0.1.0. calico RAT
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

from a few things I read,, and even didn't read! lol Thanks DMonk for your understanding and nice email.

I have far more experience building things, and MacGyvering things, making things work, and using things for what they were not necessarily intended than breeding herps. So I wanted to add my 3 cents. I've just so happened to have built many heating rocks and pads. I'm still scared to sell them as any electrical item has inherient danager. And a home made devise I don;t feel should hap-hazardly be sold. So I don', as I do not post details of projects.

IMO,, I don't think of anything in the tank, on a small portion of the floor, will heat much total space correctly. UTH's outside of the use of an enclosed rack system do the same. A glass tank does not spread the heat out for a gradient heat pattern. I think plastic works a bit better?, but not much. I tell people using UTH on tanks to place a floor tile inside the tank over it to spread the heat to a larger area.

__Ceramic tile______
|---------Tank-------------------------------|
=========
UTH

Racks work well as they allow the warmer end to let the heat flow forward per cavity.

Wu Wei

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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

I gave up using heat rocks yrs ago after one og my burms goy=t burnt..If they are hooked up to a thermostat they would work, but I don't see the use when you can use heat tape or cord, that is alot more relaible.....

I have to agree with you.I've heard horror stories of house fires caused by them.Like you said,also you have the cord thing to deal with. Jeff

The ballast in a fluorescent light hood above an aquarium tank burned our house to the ground in 1993.

Electrical failures happen on any appliance.

Another fire hazard is self ballasted lamps, the spiral bulbs everyone raves about. I have had 2 start spewing smoke upon lamp failure.

Putting basking lamps in cheap plastic sockets,not safe, buy porcelain sockets made for heat lamps.

All thermal devices have pros and cons.

A smoke detector wired to a loud alarm should be in everyones reptile area.

Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey

In my opinion heat rocks are crap and should only be used if you cut off the cord and use it for decoration!

There is a reason that they are no longer available for sale!

~ Mike Russo

When I was 6 my first snake was given to me with a heat rock. I didn't know any better about snakes and heat rocks at the time. It has long since been replaced with an UTH that was given to me as a gift.

Just out of curiousity, I plugged my old heat rock in and left it for a few hours. I came back and felt it, and it was cold, except for underneath, which was extremely hot to the touch. Before it was replaced, I had two snakes both about a year old in the same tank (36x25x18)with ventilation holes and a special plug for the heat rock. Both managed to pop the plug off and escaped into my house. Three months later we found the one, but we never found the other one.

I prefer UTH to heat rocks. Just from my own experiences. Snakes can get out wheere heat rocks are concerned, not when UTH are.

follow the URL.......

HOT ROCKS 2008

>>follow the URL.......
>>

I would say nay to heat rocks used as purchased.
At least I WOULD HAVE said nay....now, after seeing that heat rock with it's own thermostat it doesn't seem so bad.
That's one of the great things about the growing popularity of snakes, advancements in husbandry are coming as quickly as new morphs...lol
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

To come out with a "safer"??? hot rock after killing so many herps.

People need to learn, just because a company sells something, it does not mean it is good. Most UVB bulbs barely pass acceptable, many bedding that are not safe for many herps, etc etc etc.

But it is also hard to keep up with all new items and safty of them. So, the cycle continues.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Several good points have been however in general, but not unconditionally, I would have to say hot rocks are a bad idea for heating choices.

I think that most of the horror stories about hot rocks are from quite a while ago when, I suspect, their construction and useage was of much lower quality. I suspect that todays hot rocks don't get quite as rediculously hot and that they are probably using adequate materials, electronically speaking, for 24/7 usage now. Also as a previous poster mentioned you can always modify an enclosure to prevent the cord from creating an escape point. And of course any hot rock, or other variety of heat source, should always be used via a thermostat.

That being said I still do not suggest using hot rocks as there are more efficient and effective ways to heat an enclosure.

The advantage of UTH's instead of HR's is that UTH's disperse the heat over a much larger surface area of the enclosure. This means you can get the temperatures you need througout the enclosure rather then a single centeralized hot spot. Often to get the ambient temperature gradient with HR's you need to let them achieve hazardous surface temperatures since they only radiate heat from a small area.

Similarly radiant heat sources attached to the top of an enclosure work very well. They have all of the benefits of the UTH's but also have the added benefit that the snake cannot stay in constant contant with it. At least they can't if the radiant heat source is installed without lips/ledges for them to grip.

While hot rocks can be safely used if careful I don't see a reason to when there are cheaper more effective options.

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

I have a large wooden tank with a thick bottom. It's currently empty but when I used it -

I used a heating pad in the tank with foil tape covering the entire heating pad and a dimmer switch controlling the heating pad. The dimmer switch had to be kept on the low side or it got too hot too fast.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

Absolutely no heat rocks. I've heard way too many stories from too many people about snakes who have died due to the uneven heating provide by heat rocks. UTH and/or heat lamps are preferable. I realize that some people dislike heat lamps as the sole heat source, but I have had no difficulty maintaining the proper humidity and temps. I am simply too fond of my animals to think about using a heat rock.

If you want to mimic a sun-heated rock, get a large rock and place it on the substrate under a heat lamp or above the UTH. It will heat up during the day and cool off at night. Simple and safe.

lol I forgot to mention that trick(rock on UTH). Thats what I do with my trans pecos rat snakes that are in glass enclosures and the rock does get very warm but not quite hot enough to do serious harm. A similar method can be used with a second water dish(I use glass) which sits partially on top of the UTH. This does wonders for keeping the humidity up in the enclosure.

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

Heat rocks zap your pet when they crawl out of the water dish and onto the rock. I shared a jolt with my box turtle because of a heat rock.

NAY!