Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,
I’m in the research stage of making a new cage, and since I know this can be important, I thought I should ask:

The cage walls (made of wood) will not be covered in some areas (actually, probably just the ceiling of the cage will be not be covered, since it won’t need moisture protection, etc.), so the snake will just be under the bare wood. Is there any species of wood I should avoid? I know herpers are advised against using cedar as bedding, so I’ll probably avoid this species, but
is there any other wood to avoid?

I certainly don’t want any wood that will have gasses that irritate a reptile’s sinuses, or something like that. I know that experts say not to use pine shaving either, but do you think will pine boards will be a problem?

Thanks very much I appreciate any feedback, as well as direction on where/how to find this out.
Regards,
Austin
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In memory of Steve Irwin, the Crocodile Hunter. 1962-2006
Loving family man.
Champion of animal rights.
Dedicated to Conservation.
We'll miss you mate! You will not be forgotten.
We'll take it from here.

A few comments:

In a typical reptile cage there will be a significance difference in the temperature and humidity inside the cage compared to outside the cage. As such the tendency for solid wood to expand and contract can be exaggerated.

The upshot is that you should use some sort of engineered panel for most of the carcass of the cage. By engineered panel I mean plywood, melamine coated particle-board, medium density fiberboard (mdf), or other similar products.

I assume you want a wood look most of the above come with very thin real-wood veneers pressed onto the outside.

Use as little real wood as possible, like for the face frame of the cage.

Next comment: seal all parts of the cage, inside and out. If you're spending time and money it makes sense to do something to protect the material you are using and make it a cleanable surface.

By sealing all parts of the cage your choices are wide open, but limited to what you can find as a veneer on the plywood or whatever you choose for the structure of the cage.

I would still avoid some of the oily woods like cedar, redwood, etc. Almost all woods are toxic in the form of airborne dust but not necessarily toxic when solid or in the form of a veneer.

I would start by going to your local lumber yard and looking for a plywood or MDF with a wood veneer you like. Then look and see if you can find the solid-wood to match if you want a face frame. In many cases you don't even need a face frame and can just use strips of leftover plywood to accomplish the same thing, although a real face frame tends to look better.

If you're then worried about toxicity of the wood species you select do a google search. There is a ton of information.

My guess is that any wood veneered plywood you find will be fine, especially once sealed. Plywood comes with all varieties of veneers but the stuff you are likely to find locally will be the common stuff that you can research easily. Some of the rare woods that can fume a bit are very hard to find in plywood form so I doubt you'll run into a problem.
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Currently keeping a small collection of various Gonyosoma. Both G. janseni and G. oxycephala.

>>
>>The cage walls (made of wood) will not be covered in some areas (actually, probably just the ceiling of the cage will be not be covered, since it won’t need moisture protection, etc.), so the snake will just be under the bare wood.

I agree with Chris, you'll want to seal everything inside from the elements, moisture, mildew, and smell, wood will absorb odors after awhile.
Good Luck:
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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

My preffered ( notice I said "My" because what works for me may not work for you, either skill level or budget ) method for sealing wood is to use some type of epoxy, Bar top Epoxy or something close to it( West Systems would be an excellent place to start, or the more cost effective site, US Composites, http://www.uscomposites.com/epoxy.html specifically the Klear Koat Table epoxy but any of the thick epoxy's would work well...)

When and if you do buy the epoxy, do a small test pour, using the same technique as you would with the larger scale pour...

these intructions aren't meant to replace the manufacturers recommended methods, but here's the basics...

"Epoxy and You..."
- measure out desired amount using componet A into cup A
- measure out desired amount using componet B into cup B
- pour cup A into cup B
- Stir until clear (~ 3 - 4 minutes), ensuring you scrap sides to ensure proper mixing.
- Pour cup A/B into clean cup C
- Stir again (~ 3 - 4 minutes ), continuing to scrap sides while stiring.
- Pour onto clean, dust free, and dry surface ( dam the sides of your project to keep the epoxy where you want it )
- Do not scrap the remaining contents of Cup C onto your project, as there may still be unmixed componets and it will cause sticky/uncured spots to show up.
- use a torch or blow drier to remove any air bubbles
- keep project dust free for at least 8 hours while curing. ( I use a trash bag shroud to keep dust out, do not let it come in contact with the epoxy, it will cure to it, big mess!!)

Again... this is the basics, for instance, I didn't mention sealing coats and flood coats... but if you're interested... let me know...

hope this helps...

Karl

One thing you can do is to make cutouts in the sides and back to mount glass or acrylic panels. Then there is less wood to seal.

Just for you to ponder - I've used a coat of primer then topped with semigloss water-based paint. Can't complain too much. The sides and top hold up, the floor didn't - I had to touch it up alot. Then I just covered the floor with tile (no adhesive or grout) and then a thick layer of substrate like aspen. Again, can't complain. The substrate grabs most of the liquid in the excrement, and the tile helps shield the bottom alot. A simple way to keep the cage floor from taking too much of a beating without going to great lengths for sealing.

Oh, and I used a polyester filler (like Bondo) for the corners and seams before painting. You only need a little. I used gobs. Looks terrible (the way I did it) but keeps the moisture out quite well.
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Mark

Hello everybody- thanks for the great feedback. I'll go down the line and respond:

Chris- You're right: plywood would be better in some ways, however I'm trying to avoid that formaldehyde that outgasses from it.

Sealing the cage completely on the inside makes alot of sense, but why do you suggest sealing it on the outside?

Karl- I appreciate the suggestion, but I try to avoid toxic chemicals and that sounds to me to be a very, very 'chemically' process. Correct me if I'm wrong in this....

Mark- I've thought of doing cutouts like you suggested, but from one thing, the plexi or glass - whatever I'd use - would be quite expensive. Also, these materials are far less efficient at holding heat than solid wood.

"I just covered the floor with tile"
That's an awesome idea! Why didn't I think of it?.....
Are you saying that you did nothing to seal the cracks in between the tiles, to prevent the moisture from working down underneath them?

Well thanks everybody. Lots of great info here. Hope to hear back from you.

And of course new comments are welcome

-Austin
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------------------------------------------------
In memory of Steve Irwin, the Crocodile Hunter. 1962-2006
Loving family man.
Champion of animal rights.
Dedicated to Conservation.
We'll miss you mate! You will not be forgotten.
We'll take it from here.

There are formaldehyde free plywoods. I can get the Columbia formaldehyde free product in my area.

I would seal the outside of the cage with whatever looks appropriate. That really depends on what you pick out.

If you are truely trying to eliminate as many supposedly toxic products as possible you're probably best off building the cage from polyethylene or polypropylene.

Also, the product that Karl recommended is food safe and I know it has been used in marine aquaria and had no apparent effect on delicate marine invertebrates.
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Currently keeping a small collection of various Gonyosoma. Both G. janseni and G. oxycephala.