Reptile & Amphibian Forums

She has laid 9 large eggs and 1 small one. 4 are left inside (per x-ray). The vet gave her 20 cc's of Oxytocin (she is 7.2 lbs) at 3 pm yesterday and she left a medium sized smear of uric acid in the bag with her this morning at 8am.
She has been in a cooler inside of a cloth bag over a heat pad between 91 and 95.2F since the vet visit.

I am considering soaking in warm water as the vet suggested before the x-ray. I am also considering gently messaging the eggs down if possible. Not enough to harm her (per Mader's book on reptile medicine).

Anything you could recommend?

Thanks.
Anthony Wrenn

Soaking her would probably help, and I wouldn't keep her above 86/88F. I've read on several occasions that egg retention can sometimes be due to dehydration, so increased moisture couldn't hurt.

Egg retention can be serious, so if it doesn't resolve itself, speak to your vet about payment plans for surgery...also, if you haven't already, make sure your vet specializes (at least partially) w/ herps. I had a standard vet really screw up a retic once (took me over 6 months to get her back to health), and now I drive 2 hours for a veterinary visit...worth every penny.

Good luck!
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

I forgot about the dehydration factor. I will head home now to switch out her holding container. Thanks!

I did get a vet who went to North Carolina vet school that works with the NC zoo there. Verbally his knowledge seems to be good (not expert). The vet. who I believe to be an expert unfortunately only works M-Thurs. And his second has no experience with herps. And he is about 40 minutes from me. The only other one that is that good is 3 hours north from me (near District of Columbia) Stahl exotic vet. clinic or something like that. A lot of people have recommended that vet. I do plan on getting to know their practice soon since I have had my first big problem.

Thanks again Mike.
Anthony

I'd be inclined to get her in for an emergency visit. When were the others laid? This could be fatal if untreated.
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

I've never used Stahl, but he IS excellant. Very good with snakes. I wouldn't worry until a week has gone by. Soaking her in warm water might help, also.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.1 Bloods
1.1 Balls
2.2 IJ Carpets
1.0 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
2.0 Jungle Carpet
0.1 Carpondro
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
.1 Brazilian Rainbow boas
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

I performed the surgery on my own Vietnamese Rhino Ratsnake last year after a week of retention. We removed the mummified eggs from her left oviduct. She has gone on to breed and produce viable eggs so all is not lost. The surgery is delicate so please find a DVM who is a specialist in your area. You can also call your nearest Veterinary college as they should have such a Dr. on staff. Let us know how it works out.

Greg Roccaro, DVM

They mummified in 7 days! Wow that is fast. I am glad yours worked out. It give me hope for mine.
I am have found a vet that is good with this type of surgery (he helps at the VA beach City Aquarium) but Have yet to speak with him becase he only works a few days out of the week.
I will post my results here. Thanks for the info.
Anthony

Egg retention is USUALLY caused by stress. Many here will argue that it is caused by dehydration/imature females/ weird eggs/ anatomical abnormalities ect. However in my experience it almost always has to do with young females who have only marginal egg laying conditions.

You took an exhausted stressed snake, threw it in a box its not used to...brought it to the vet... and then have been keeping it a bag????? And you want her to keep laying eggs???

Put her back in her cage. Go buy a DARK COLORED rubbermaid tub that will fit inside. Cut a small hole in it and fill it to the top with damp spagnum or dirt or vermiculite or anything else that floats your boat. Give her a variety of temperatures to choose from. Then just let her be for a few days.

Egg binding is not an immediately life threatening situation. If she hasn't passed the rest after 4-5 days than there are other more invasive options to consider at that point.

good luck

Hey Zack.
I did try to chill and let nature take its course. I gave her 48 to 55 hours before I removed her from her cage to take her to the vet.
The oxytocin shot did not work (big surprise there). I soaked her in a dark rubbermaid tub for 3 days since then at 92-95 F. Still nothing. I just put her back into her cage today with a higher wattage basking spot light set to 99F.
I think I will try what you recommend to get more like her habitat and do the rubbermaid in her cage and fill it with something like coconut husks or jungle liter.
Thans for the info.
Anthony

92-95 it too hot to force her to be. You are making her burn precious energy just to stay allive before she is ready to expell the eggs.

If the problem still hasn't resolved it may be getting to the point where its too late to let nature take its course. There are several options. The least invasive is to stick a needle into the egg closest to the cloaca and drain some/all of the contents out. Then repeat the oxytosin. I have rarely seen oxytosin work but I don't think it is because it is a bad choice. Oxytosin works fast. I think that the problem is that most people give the shot at the vet, by the time they get the snake home to someplace comfortable its too late. I would have the vet aspirate the egg and then ask him to send you home with the shot of oxytosin.

The other option is palpation which I would also recomend you let the vet try if you have never done it.

Lastly I have seen snakes (colubrids) go for long periods of time with retained eggs and eventually expel them or resorb them.

You really need to get them surgically removed. It's the only guaranteed way.
-----
1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.1 Bloods
1.1 Balls
2.2 IJ Carpets
1.0 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
2.0 Jungle Carpet
0.1 Carpondro
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
.1 Brazilian Rainbow boas
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

Looks like the large egg that was holding everything up has moved about 6 inches! It is right near her vent now. Hopefully she will be passing it any day soon.
Then I only have to wait for the other 3 smaller ones to come out (they have moved as little too).

I have only provided optimal cage conditions since my soaking her for 3 days. Looks like nature does it again without man-kinds help. Go figure.
Anthony Wrenn

Good to hear...my fingers will be crossed that they pass safely. Have you kept notes/dates documenting everything? I'd be interested to find out if this there have been others who'd experienced the same.
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

I actually have kept notes. Not daily but each time I noticed something I have written it down. I will also be getting a copy of the x-ray.
Anthony

Interested to check everything out. Drop me an e-mail if you get a chance.
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

On 4/22/08 she shed and it looked like some of her scales wre rotted on her side and ventral scales.
4/23/08 I took her to the vet. and was told she possibly has septicemia. So she started on Amikacin injections and I had the vet. drain the egg since it was at her vent. That same day I fed her the first meal since her pre-ovulation meal.

On 5/5/08 she passed that first egg and then the other 3 moved down to the vent! I am not sure if the food or the medicine helped her push the egg out, but it is out.
Hopefully, these last 3 should come out without needing to be drained.
Anthony W.