Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ive been doing a little research and have foud that wildhorse station ( where im staying if i get out to West Texas this year) is very close to BBNP and was wondering if there is a good number of Scutes in this area ( i think it would be the best place for me to look for them because im not allowed to have any tools so no temptaion to get to close)? I was also wondering if anyone has recently been to the park and was wondering what the current rule on flashlights are.

Thanks

Blake Molone

You could pull out of the wildhorse and find scutes all in the area. Also hit the river road (fm 170). External lighting of any source is not allowed in BBNP. My advice would be to not enter the park with any equipment at all (except camera) during the day. Don't be tempted. Anything you can find in the park you can find outside the park. Remember, each time a herper enters the park, he or she is representing all of us. Be smart. Be courteous. Follow the rules. Don't take chances.

To this day I don't understand why herpers feel the need to hunt in the park. You can find tons of stuff on the River Road.

Keep asking good questions. Better to be armed with all the knowledge ahead of time.

Best Wishes,

SXO792

Blake-

Back in '85, the first scutulatus I'd ever seen wasin the park-but times were a LOT different then. Nocturnal wildlife observation was encouraged, and we even camped at the Chisos mntns. campground with all our herp equipment in full view! We were careful to inform the rangers that we were not collecting, just observing, in the park, and they gave us no trouble at all!

Nowadays the opposite is true. There is a zero-tolerance policy. As difficult as it is to believe, it is against the rules to use lights to even observe nocturnal wildlife in a DESERT National Park! Just stay out of the park-there are far better places to herp nearby, anyway.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

If you are at Wildhorse and want to see a scute, go about 10 miles north and cruise the flats. Scutes and atrox are all over up there.

I agree 100% with all of the above comments.

BBNP is great for hiking, sightseeing, or birding, but it sucks for herping. I live here and hate that I can't even enter the park without feeling unwelcome, stowing my gear, and trading my usual walking stick (a hoe with the blade removed -great for flipping, balancing, and pulling myself up rugged terrain) for a much less functional ski pole type walking stick. Many park personnel suffer from an unfortunate and irrational bias against herpers. If I thought they'd care, I'd suggest boycotting BBNP.

The birders can stalk birds all day long, but herpers can't even slow down for a herp without being suspected of poaching. Lots of cactus is stolen from the park (I'd dare say much more than herps), yet cactus lovers can examine cacti all day long and even possess shovels and tissue (traditionally for make shift toilets -but also ideal for digging and wrapping cacti). Look at a snake too closely and you might be searched. Carry a hook and you will likely be expelled, ticketed, or worse.

There are no herps in the park that can't be found just as easily (or more easily) outside the park. Scutes are an easy target in the flats north of the Christmas Mountains.

Thank you, that was alot of helpfull info and pretty much summed up what I was asking.

Well, its funny that since they are so protective of the Park's herpetofauna that they would still sell(and I bought another one again last fall at the Park's information center) a little blue pamphlet call "AMPHIBIANS AND REPTILES CHECKLIST" and inside it reads exactly "One of the best ways to observe(not disturb or collect!) the park's herpetofauna (a total of 66 species) is to cruise the roads on warm, humid, windless, moonless nights." Now if anyone wanted to observe the parks herps at night and had one of these Amphibian and Reptile pamphlets with them and didnt have any snake hunting equipment, I personally dont see how they would get in trouble....The pamphlet invites people to cruse the park's roads at night to observe the herps as long as they dont disturb or collect them.....
Bill

Bill,

It is ironic that they still sell that little checklist without any notation about the rule on artificial lighting. Having that checklist with you probably would provide a reasonable defense (not sure how it would hold up in court, but if presented with a good attitude it would probably work in the field).

Also, I probably should have noted that I am unaware of any strict enforcement on the artificial lighting ban to date. Hopefully the rangers will use a great deal of discretion and simply inform "offenders" to move along. But, I'm often considered naively optimistic.

I think you could win that if challanged in court, but you will not beat the ride.

I also think they know this and do not care on bit about the rights of herpers to enjoy the same freedoms of other nature enthusiest.

Lance
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Herp Conservation Unlimited

Highly recommend the wildhorse station. Great place, real friendly people. A man, Tivo, and his wife, Lareda, run the place and have an awesome Mexican restraunt a stone throw away. Great place to be. They welcome herpers, but Lareda probably won't go in to clean the room since she'll think you've got snakes in there.

I think you are confusing Wildhorse Station and Longhorn Ranch Motel. Unless something has changed very recently, Tivo and Lareda run the Longhorn and the restaurant there. Everything I've heard about both places suggests that they are herp friendly and worthy of our business. As far as Mexican food goes, I prefer the Chili Pepper Cafe in Study Butte. Great food, reasonable prices and good service.

EXACTLY Eby! He is confusing the two! How's everyting rockin out West? We are coming soon! Any cool snaky properties for sale?????
Wayne H.

>>How's everyting rockin out West?
-Keeping busy with construction and frustrated with herping (to dry for flipping and cooling off too quickly for much night herping).

>>We are coming soon!
-Great. Shoot me an email [Daryl(at)MountainDesert(dot)com] if you want to meet up for some herping.

>>Any cool snaky properties for sale?????
-I have some friends with 100 awesome acres for sale just west the the Luna Vista and accessible from North County Road. I also have a sweet little five acre piece with a little cabin for $7K. Both are shown on my website at MountainLivingLand.com.

Thanks. I will check this out! I need some property out there! Talk with ya later.

Wayne

I sure did confuse them. I stayed at the LONGHORN RANCH MOTEL with Tivo and Lareda. Apparently one year is just too long to be away from West Texas!!! Hope to be making it out there in the beginning of May.