Reptile & Amphibian Forums

His clutch of all males, lol

Have a good one,

Gregg F.

Hi Gregg,
Although I think that you albino 'capes' are most certainly beautiful snakes, it is also important not to misrepresent them for what they are not (purebred). IMHO albino 'capes' are a hybrid, possibly between a vertebralis and a bimaris or annectans. I own an albino 'cape', very likely purchased from the same breeder that you acquired yours from. It was very apparent to me that the cranial and labial scalation as well as the overall morphology of the albino 'cape' gopher was unlike my other purebred capes. Unfortunately, the breeder of the albino 'capes' choose to misrepresent these hybrids to the public to make himself some cash. If you check his updated website you will not see any mention of albino 'cape' gophers anymore. This type of behavior is becoming more apparent in the herp hobby today, and those who suffer the most are the herps themselves (although new hobbyists suffer as well). I Think that genetic preservation of captive species is very important. It is likely that humans will destroy most all of the habitats our wild animals occupy, given enough time. Without genetic preservation of species, the herps that once existed in the wild will have their gene pools diluted to obscurity and essentially will cease to exist. I am not stating that I feel that hybridizing snakes is 'wrong', but that I feel misrepresenting them is. Investigate your animals, and make wise choices!
Josh

Hello Josh,
Thanks for the compliments on the snakes looking very nice, greatly appreciated. But, in my honest opinion, they are 100% pure. I have done a lot of research into this project and talked to not only the breeder several times, but others how have visited his place and physically viewed his collection. The breeder only kept Bulls and Capes when these albiono's first came on the scene. No bimaris, no annectans where ever seen their by those i have spoken to. Now maybe he borrowed one or what not to breed with a Cape, but why would a man who works with Ball Python morpsh and absolutely amazing high end Boas mess with creating a hybrid, and cheap (compared to what he is usually breeding) Pituophis? I believe not only the breeder, but several people on this forum who have told me why they believe they are 100% pure. I trust and believe the breeder, and stand behind him all the way. If you can't trust anyone in this hobby, which is apparently the case anymore, then I really need to find somethign better to do with my time. I really don't know how anyone in this hobby will ever have a new morph such as an amel hatch out...everyone labels them as mutts immediately. I would seriously think about selling anything like that to another breeder, let them take the heat for supposedly creating a hybrid. I also keep albino bairdi, believed to be hybrids...no idea what they could have been bred with to create a hybrid that looks like my animals which. Either way, they are all very nice looking and great to work with. I plan on posting them as pure animals until someone has proof they are not. No one has come up with evidence (that i have been able to find in the past few years) to say they aren't pure. Sorry if you feel i'm misrepresenting them, and I thank you for pointing out the scale counts and morphology characteristics of them. But until i can be proven wrong they will remain as albino capes in my eyes. I also agree with you that we need to keep animals pure, i have no desire to breed anything that would create a hybrid. I don't mind those that do, but i personally don't want to create new animals. There are a few people on this forum buying the babies from me this year, so hopefully they will soon be able to give some insight into this amel strain from personally seeing them.
Thanks again, and have a great holiday weekend.

Gregg F.

>>Hi Gregg,
>>Although I think that you albino 'capes' are most certainly beautiful snakes, it is also important not to misrepresent them for what they are not (purebred). IMHO albino 'capes' are a hybrid, possibly between a vertebralis and a bimaris or annectans. I own an albino 'cape', very likely purchased from the same breeder that you acquired yours from. It was very apparent to me that the cranial and labial scalation as well as the overall morphology of the albino 'cape' gopher was unlike my other purebred capes. Unfortunately, the breeder of the albino 'capes' choose to misrepresent these hybrids to the public to make himself some cash. If you check his updated website you will not see any mention of albino 'cape' gophers anymore. This type of behavior is becoming more apparent in the herp hobby today, and those who suffer the most are the herps themselves (although new hobbyists suffer as well). I Think that genetic preservation of captive species is very important. It is likely that humans will destroy most all of the habitats our wild animals occupy, given enough time. Without genetic preservation of species, the herps that once existed in the wild will have their gene pools diluted to obscurity and essentially will cease to exist. I am not stating that I feel that hybridizing snakes is 'wrong', but that I feel misrepresenting them is. Investigate your animals, and make wise choices!
>>Josh

,

Hi Gregg,
Thanks for the reply. It's absolutely o.k.to differ of opinion. I have read posts by some well respected pit breeders on this forum that feel that this strain is hybridized which prompted my investigation, and it seems that you have conversed with those that feel otherwise. Perhaps others on this forum would like to weigh in on this subject. Will others that have had personal experience or knowledge of albino 'cape' gophers please repond with their opinions or information. Thanks in advance,
Josh

Gregg posts a pic of his snake and calls it an adult albino cape gopher. I've seen and read the threads that come up now and then on this subject. Gregg did check out the albino cape gophers. I posted on the threads discussing their purity and Gregg and I traded emails. I have (actually my partner Del has the pits) a pair of cape gophers that came from the breeder that produced Gregg's albino capes. Del actually picked my capes up at the breeders home. Del saw his collection and talked to him for a long time and gave me his thoughts. This breeder is a ball python and boa guy. He has two pituophis subspecies that he keeps and breeds. He has cape gophers and bullsnakes. He has them because he likes capes and bulls. He doesn't market them or even push them. He always loved the albino bulls so he has (had) a pair of breeders. He has 2 cape lines. One is the normals and the other albino and hets. He breeds them every year because they sell out every year. Sure he got a nice price for the albino capes. Shouldn't he? He doesn't get near the price that he gets for his ball pythons. How many times do you see this breeder post or run ads for capes or bulls. If I hybridized a snake to get the money, I'd personally be posting it every week. When Del picked up the normal capes for me, he said the breeder didn't even bring up the albinos. Del did because I asked him to check them out while he was there. This breeder is really trying to cash in on the albinos. I don't think so. As alot of python and boa breeders do, they end up selling or putting their other snakes on breeder loan because they need more room to breed the money snakes. This breeder doesn't have the albinos on his website because he doesn't have them anymore. He has also gotten rid of his female albino breeder bullsnake recently. He will eventually not have any capes or bulls in his collection because he needs room to produce ball pythons and boas. I don't question the purity of any of his breeders pituophis. I didn't get an albino earlier because I didn't really think they looked that great. Now that Gregg and a few others have been producing them and I've seen them, I will gladly be getting some albino cape gophers. You've bought the albino cape and having made some visual observations and did some comparing you have come to the conclusion the albino you have is not pure. That's fine with me, but it doesn't change my view. I haven't seen any albino cape gophers misrepresented yet and I would be at the head of the line if I did. Good luck Josh.

>>Hi Gregg,
>>Thanks for the reply. It's absolutely o.k.to differ of opinion. I have read posts by some well respected pit breeders on this forum that feel that this strain is hybridized which prompted my investigation, and it seems that you have conversed with those that feel otherwise. Perhaps others on this forum would like to weigh in on this subject. Will others that have had personal experience or knowledge of albino 'cape' gophers please repond with their opinions or information. Thanks in advance,
>>Josh

Gregg,
If you remember we chatted awhile ago about this. I have bought snakes from that breeder and they were NOT misrepresented in the least. However as I mentioned to you I had heard that an albino bull was used to get the gene. I hope I'm wrong as I would love to own some oneday.. but like the Louisiana Pines we may never know. Gorgeous snake non the less. Ron
-----
"The Crawl Space"

Here are some head shots for those that are interested.

Another.

and another.

Hey greg Very nice lookin babies.I also have one of the albino capes and was very unsure of its purity.I personly drove to santa cruiz to get my animal and he showed me an albino bull for comparison and they are definately diffrent.I believe the animals origonated from the frezno zoo and dont se any reason for the breeder to miss represent these capes seeing as the prices on his balls well outweigh the albino capes.I think he sold me his last albino which would explain why they have been removed from the site,My patternless female I recently lost was supposed to be from the same stock as the albinos(according to steve) though the patternless came from vivid.Steve used to live in lubbok TX same as vivid which explains how tim got the patternless.Ive got a pair of het for patternless from the female mentioned purchased from vivid and I know there are a couple more hets floating around elsewhere...................just my ramblings on the subject.

Jeremiah Ronsonet
www.diablosnakefarm.com