Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just wondering if anyone has any Pearls that have survived past neonate stage? Still hard to understand what affects this morphs deadly genetics.

Thanks

np

Im also wanting to know more about the Pearl mutation as I should be producing one or two next season. Has anyone had a pearl survive? and if so..what lines look the strongest? Thanks Mike

The Super Woma, or the Pearl, is a fatal combo. They have not survived past a couple of months from what I know...

I've never created one myself, however.
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www.HeathersHerps.com

-Ohh, what a Lady-

Balls for Life, Baby!

Has any one thought about instead of breeding state Womas has any one tried breeding Womas that are het or double for other morphs as to possibly strengthen there genetics ? David

I have woma X pastel that will be breeding this fall and will be keeping all woma pastels to breed back....hopefully something new and exciting will come of that. Mike

The only thing is that you will have womas or pastels , there are no het pastelsthere are no het pastels . So I doubt it will do anything to bolster the genetics .

you can get woma pastels...no one said anything about hets. i havent seen any offspring from woma pastel X woma pastel..but im sure it would look awesome

Yes ,but the original thread was about the Pearl and the possibility of producing some that would live past 3-4 months of age and what would bolster the genetics to keep Woma X Woma from being a leather combo . David

I hope to see it thrive real soon...i'll keep my fingers crossed!

Yes good luck with tem and I hope you come up with something grate . Keep us updated and post pic.s . David

Do you mind me asking how old you are? Just curious.

Why ?

Dave, combining the different mutations will not affect the woma gene. The reason you can get double or triple hets is because each mutation is located somewhere else on the allele that controls the pattern and color of the ball python. Combining different mutations doesn't do anything to "strengthen" the genes, because you're just changing different genes around, not messing with the one you want to fix.

There isn't really way to 'fix' a lethal gene if it kills off the ones that have it before they reach reproductive age.

In any other animal, this kind of thing would be highlighted and probably result in discontinuing breeding anything from the lethal 'line'. But not ball pythons!

~jenny
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"We call them dumb animals, and so they are, for they cannot tell us how they feel, but they do not suffer less because they have no words."
- Anna Sewell (1820-1878)

Here ia a pic of a woma female on 6 eggs bred to a woma male, so hopefully we can get a bit more info. These were just laid so it will be a while.

Hi Tracy . I would be interested in the lineage of the pare ? Thanks David

I hatched the male and female from a woma male x normal females 4 years ago. The original animal I got was from NERD about 6-7 years ago.Here is a pic of an axanthic woma we hatched last year with a normal woma.

They are beautiful . David

Hi Jenny ! What I was referring to is that it has been the case were one gene with a more negative impact can be canceled out by another . at least that is what I was told by a micro Biology prophesier at SFA.

That can happen, but the difference is that what you're talking about is that the genes for a bad trait are replaced with genes for a good trait - that can only happen if the traits are at the exact same place on the DNA strand in the allele. The DNA for pastel, pied, albino, etc, are all apparently on different parts of the DNA strand because you can mix and match the morphs all you want and all of the morphs are represented. Thus, you can't replace the woma morph with any of the others because they aren't at the same place on the strand.

I could see that maybe a lucy or an ivory might mask the woma trait, but it depends on what it is about the woma trait that causes the babies to start dying. If just having two copies of the woma gene results in liver failure at 3 months (or whatever it is that's killing the super woma babies), then it doesn't matter what morph you mix with it, the liver will still fail at 3 months because the other pattern genes don't affect the liver.

In order to 'fix' the lethal gene, we need to know exactly what happens that results in the baby snake's death, when it happens, and why it happens. You can't solve a problem if you only have one part of the question.

~jenny
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"We call them dumb animals, and so they are, for they cannot tell us how they feel, but they do not suffer less because they have no words."
- Anna Sewell (1820-1878)

But using the same scenario you used , if what’s in the Woma gene that courses the liver to fail there can just as well be a over riding counterpart in some other morphs gene that will over come it and give a better liver function . Jen. There is so much unknown in genetics in general that anything is possible . Thanks David

Selective breeding may help. Generation after generation keep selecting breeding stock from the womas that are sibs of the longest-lived homozygous womas. No telling how long it would take though.

Paul Hollander

I could barely make out the wording of your post, but a Woma Pastel X normal will produce 25% Womas, 25% Pastels, 25% Woma pastels, and 25% Normals. Not sure why you wrote that he would only get Pastels and Womas.

Also, as a co-dominant mutation there is a visible affect to the animal in the heterozygous form of the mutation. The Pastel phenotype is the heterozygous appearance of the Pastel heterozygous genotype. Aka, the Pastels are the Hets.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

It's unlikely, but I suppose not impossible, that some other mutation will change whatever prevents a homozygous woma from thriving.

Mutations are changing something in normal chemistry. The heterozygous animals for this mutation (the woma) still have one normal copy of that gene and apparently do ok but whatever the change is it sounds like the homozygous version (the pearl) doesn't make it. Maybe someone will eventually find some genetic or environmental solution to this problem but I wouldn't expect some other abnormal chemistry at another gene location (i.e. another mutation like pastel) to make up for the effects of having two copies of the woma mutation.

Has the spider woma been produced and did it survive? Has it been bred? I’d be very interested to know if it produced any normals or only 50/50 spiders and womas bred to a normal.

n/p

Randy,
I have a woma spider that I bred to a lavender. She just ovulated but only has a few eggs. Will have to see what pops out when the eggs hatch.

Awesome breeding and best of luck! Let us know what comes out please.

I suppose it's most likely that there is no relation between spider and woma and you will be able to produce spider woma het lavender along with spider het lavender and woma het lavender and normal looking het lavenders out of that breeding.

However, with it probably being a small clutch if you only produce spider het lavender and woma het lavender we'll not know if it was just luck or if the two mutations are linked in some way. It could turn out to be one of those things that's hard to prove but if after several clutches no one produces normals or spider womas from spider woma X normal for both spider and woma then eventually we'll build a case for spider and woma either being two different mutations of the same gene or at least close together on the same chromosome.

Hey Randy, we have a wannabee = woma, spider and pastel. She should be ready to breed this coming season. I had hoped she would be ready this year but she is a very slow grower.

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Alice Cobb
Florida Reptile Room

I believe NERD has a Lesser Platinum Pearl...http://www.newenglandreptile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5736
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-Diana
www.LunarBoids.com

all I found was a Woma Lesser Pastel. David

If you follow that link the first snake in the post from Kara is the Lesser Pearl.

They produced a number of Lesser Pearls. Very neat looking BPs, pattern and color similar to a Woma Python, I always found that interesting given the Woma name for the het form of the Pearl. Don't know if they lived or died though.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!