Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone keep WC timber rattlers. I am thinking about buying a wc, but he has not eaten yet, and how hard is it to get to eat.
Thanks,
KRis

It's not difficult if you can trap White-footed field mice or chipmunks, then eventually once they are eating you can scent domestic mice and eventually they'll switch.

BUT...Consider doing Timber rattlesnakes a favor and buy a captive born. These snakes are declining enough as it is and its ridiculous seeing these half-wit dealers selling every WC herp they can capture.

I will look into a cb timber. Thanks for the info
KRis

With the amount of available timber's out there, there is just no reason to buy wild-caught. And speaking of timber's, when's your next off week-end? I still gotta get that copperhead to you as well, if you still want it.
-tom

After some carefull thinking, i have decided im not going to get a timber. I was not aware of the paperwork involved with trying to get a license for them. I have a venemous license, however i do not wish to take the time to get an endangered species permit.

Thanks
KRis

Do you realy have to have a permit? I got the run around for nearly two months before I got my Timbers. Every where I looked I was told I had to have a permit to keep (native, endangered) animals. Timbers are protected in Kansas also.
When I contacted the Dept. of Fish and Wildlife, Law enforcement div. I FINALLY GOT A LIVE PERSON AFTER ABOUT 25 CALLS. I was told that the (PERMIT) in Kansas is realy just a letter or a receipt, from the previous owner showing that the animals were born in captivity, or that they were legally collected out of state. I have to keep this with the animals at all times.
All the info I had found before that lead me to believe that I could expect a mountain of paper work, a yearly fee, with a chance for surprize inspections.
As it turns out all I needed was a paper that shows that they weren't caught here. No application, no registration, no fees.

In Ohio i know they are considered endangered, and you have to have a special permit to own them.

Kris is here in NY. C. horridus (even atricaudatus) is considered a threatened species in NY and requires an Endangered Species Permit. They are becoming more restrictive here on who they are being issued too(for whatever reason).

Matt

ie....why do you need it, what educational purposes, what are the dates of the educational lectures, what is your occupation, what degree do you have, what pertinent experience does you occupation have with keeping c. horridus, what experience do you have with c. horridus in general, how much biological science background do you have.....I think that's a rough example of the prerequisites a person needs to get an ESP in NY. They're getting pretty brutal.
-tom

I have moved through three counties in the two past years. Each time I consider moving I have to do alot of research.
One county might let you keep venomous without a care. The next one over might make you register your animals with law enforcment and fire dept.
I now live in a county that has no venomous laws but they have an INHERANTLY DANGEROUS ANIMAL LAW. Local law enforcment explainded this by saying. "You can keep anything you want to untill it tries to bite a human."
I LAUGHED MY ASS OFF AT THIS. I have a Timber rattler and coral snake that are docile enough to free handle( I DON'T but could). I also have a hampster that will chase you done and attack like a rabid dog.

The reason for this as there was no distiction between what was formerly canebrakes and timbers...ie-someone buys or collects a timber and tries to pass it off as a cane so as to avoid the esp procedure...this didn't sit well with Alvin Briech (who has a bunny-hugger sort of attitude towards wildlife) and other members of the Timber Rattlesnake Conservation Action Plan, an org. that spans the entirety of true timber range.
What keepers don't understand is that MOST of these people DO NOT keep venom. And, in lieu of past snake hunter activities, have made it as tough as possible to obtain one, legally, regardless of state locality. A good friend of mine was almost totally responsible for bringing the hammer down and fought for the state listing that timbers now harbor...as one person alone was the root of the desimation of over 100 den and den complexes throughout their NY range.
I know of only one person, who, to the best of my knowledge, has an esp in NY and does not have a profession based in conservation. This person also kept their animals at a now disolved display along rt. 32 that was less than sanitary. When I say this, i am refering to massive infestations of mites, stomatitis infections ( a fer de lance), inadequate space for larger species (such as eastern diamondbacks ad monacled coblras) and lack of adequate water and a clean environment. You know who you are and I know you will probably read this. To top all of this off, I found a key that fit such enclosures that was left out in plain sight. I inserted this key into the timber enclosure and opened it, that is how I know.
Those in the Endangered Species Unit were made aware of these conditions and are now viewing esp apps. with alot more scutiny, and are steering away from the desires of novice keepers.
Some people have to realize that these animals are not a fad to be taken lightly just because they have held leadership positions within state herpetological communities and have money to throw around.

sorry for the tangent, but I hope this wakes people up to the fact that conservation-minded individuals and professionals are watching you, at displays and at shows, and are foming a list as to who is naught and who is nice. NY's venom laws are up for a re-evaluation. The permit application is labeled interm for a reason. If you keep responsibly and are aware of these animals rights to life, that will be duely noted. I know nobody will respond to this, and my goal is not to offend. as a keeper of rehabed specimens who enjoys these animals in the wild and as captive RESPONSIBILITIES, this is just a warning to those who really see thEse snakes for what they are.

Yes. And I could list a dozen other things wrong about the place(hence why he is no longer in business), BUT you weren't correct about the Fer-de-lance. The snake has no rostral which was rubbed off during a period when it was loanded to an AZA zoo for a study of "Snake Proofing" material for a major boot manufacturer(See Dean Ripa's article on www.venomousreptiles.org or Chapter 19 of his bushmaster CD). Anyway, the temps got into the 90's during the summer and this agitated the asper and she rubbed her rostral off(similar to black rats snakes which do the same thing). After that, scar tissue plugged her nostrils and she cannot breathe through them, instead breathing through her glottis, hence why she will lay in the cage with her mouth wide open. She's done this for 3 years now with no ill effects except shedding problems, hence I have to hand peel the skin off her head.

The snake never had stomatitis, but it is now gravid.

FYI....I've been told Rudy's been back in town