Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is my '05 Bass Lake pair. I'm hoping they breed this year.
Due to a move, they had a short brumation. Only a month and a half. So I'm thinking they may not. We'll just have to wait and see?
The female just had her post brumation shed, and both the male and female are eating like pigs. Jerry, I'm doing my best! LOL!!! First pics of the female....


......and the male.


Thanks!
-Phil

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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

Great looking multicincta Phil... figures if you got them from Jerry they'd be nice... Just the same those are both exceptionally clean-patterned. Great animals... thanks for posting the pics of them!

Chris

I actually got them from Ric Blair. I didn't know it at the time, but Jerry was taliking to Ric about getting them, but
they ended up being sold to me, not that I'm complaining.
Jerry's #1 on the list though, if he's interested.
-Phil
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

Must have misread along the way... oops~! Just the same good luck w/ them this year! Hope they go for you.

Chris

I'll definitely let you know if they do.
Thanks!
-Phil
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

Wow! Those are awesome! Good luck w/ the pairing this year!

reako45

Very nice Phil, very nice. Hmm, the ones that got away. No worries mate, we're all in good company so I know we'll all have each others stuff somewhere down the line. Very stocky too -- what size mice do you have 'em on and what kind of feeding response do you have (i.e.: finicky/shy versus tiger-like voracity)? ..... Oh, well lookey here....seems I have a couple empty shoe boxes. LOL.

Jerry Kruse

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Jerry, how about a little background on that pic....its a really nice one!

That's one of his AWESOME hypo-erythristic San Pedro Mountain Kings(L.z.agalma)

Those are just plain superb!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

you always have kind things to say to everyone. You are good people indeed. I really hope to break away from NY, jet off to some show and just hang for a while with some of you guys. At best this year I will be taking in part of a weekend with Howie S. to flip for easterns. Otherwise, nada. That female agalma btw is so swollen and will hopefully blue up soon -- I'm really looking forward to the babies this year. Anyway, hope all is well and thanks again bud.

Jerry Kruse

Jerry,....

Fact is, I gotta' give credit where credit is due!. I pride myself on having some pretty cool stuff, and had a lot more different things years back, than I do now, but hearing about your hypo-E agalma being swelled up with eggs, has really got me jealous!..LOL!....I would love to have some of those in my collection!

I really dig unique "real deal" animals like those, and the fact that the trait didn't originate from "borrowing" it from another closely related type of snake already found in the hobby.
That's what makes those so darn cool in my opinion.

BTW, I would also like to meet up with you, and some of the others guys here at a show for instance some day.

If you and Howie end up "flippin'" for Easterns soon, I hope you guys make out well, and come back with heavy sacks!

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I really dig unique "real deal" animals like those, and the fact that the trait didn't originate from "borrowing" it from another closely related type of snake already found in the hobby.
That's what makes those so darn cool in my opinion.

the real deal on that is it is from jaurez X martir animals....which is 2 closey related type snakes

here is one of a friends..who said it is 100% martir..?

That the hypoerythrism wasn't introduced from a hypo-E nelsoni, or Sinaloan, or any other ridiculous combination of snake that was "back-bred" for several successive generations to more closely resemble something they are NOT. As many other animals in this hobby are now.

Please correct me if I'm wrong,....those ARE agalma, correct?

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Please correct me if I'm wrong,....those ARE agalma, correct?

Yes....from 2 different places....that are different from each other, and from the small samples...the agalma seem to be different from each other. But yes, it is a very cool looking animal no doubt...that was never an issue, and the gene itself is cool too. Heres a pure line of hypoE pyros that originate from the chiri's.....

6 eggs from a het X het breeding and 3.1 hypoE's and 1.1 66% hets..watch this year give me all 66% hets...knock on wood..hahaha

And those hypoE pyro's are stunning as well!.........striking little beauties indeed!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

What I CAN offer up here is that, for one, no one has ever determined whether or not this actually IS a hypoE trait or not. My prior posts have stated that it APPEARS as such and future breedings will hopefully rule it out or not. Long story short, Paul Lynum and Matt Smith had the original anerythristic pure Martir agalma (mid-90's). Since there were no other pure contenders to breed the line true, this animal was crossed into Juarez stock. So here we are two to three generations down the line where a number of "hets" are floating around with some looking hypoerythristic. Some say that Martir animals, pure ones anyway, seem to have this phenotype. I have yet to see a bona fide, 100% PURE Martir. I've gotten to know several individuals (I will maintain their privacy) that THOUGHT they had pure Martirs, but instead learned that they were taken for with what were promised them as pure. Very sad, but true. That pic you attached belongs to a reputable person, whose name I will also leave respected, but is one example of a shady deal. So before utilizing a somewhat diminuative tone, let's get the facts straight in an upbeat fashion. Onward and upward.

Jerry Kruse

Thanks a bunch for that info, Jerry!.......that was very helpful in understanding the "real" low-down on them.

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

glad we could do it positively. There are a bunch that have been bred solely to Juarez lines, as mine are, and there are some that are bred to look like Martirs, as in the pic posted by "jeph". The whole zonata thing is a very sordid thing unfortunately, which started with a Federal crackdown on the keeping of zonatas somewhere in the early 2000's which seemingly stretched even outside of California -- all I know is that when I was breeding at full capacity since the early 90's, everyone had zonatas including myself. I took a hiatus beginning in 2002 to enter graduate school (selling everything -- BIG mistake) and by graduation in 2005, they were almost completely off the map when I jumped back in to the hobby. I hope things change with time, as all things must. By the way, are you out west or down south?

Jerry Kruse

wrong with that Jeff??????LOL.....

L8r

I think that's "centipede" grass... or maybe Bermuda... But I'm quite certain it's not rye.

^_^ Thanks for the giggle, I needed that!
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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Florida Kingsnake (Eddie Gein)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Black Cat (Shadowfax)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan)
1.0 Tennessee Walking Horse (Durango)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)

I've posted that pic 10 times in the last year and you're only now asking for background? Jeff, how much "grass" wouldja like? LOL. *cough* I swear Holly is a botanist or just eeerily smart. Someone with two horses is surely doing something right if you ask me.

Jerry Kruse

" *cough* I swear Holly is a botanist or just eeerily smart. Someone with two horses is surely doing something right if you ask me."

Hrm... I think I'll take Eeerily Smart for $1000, Alex. ^_^

If herps are one of my hobbies, plants are a sub-hobby.
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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Florida Kingsnake (Eddie Gein)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Black Cat (Shadowfax)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan)
1.0 Tennessee Walking Horse (Durango)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)

.
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

Hi Jerry,
i've been away from the boards for the winter and boy was i surprised. i see that you believe the agalmas i sold you are hypo-E. i told you when you bought them as pets that they were'nt anything but old agalmas. i raised that pair from gorgeous orange neonates (1996) i told you that over 8 years and 72 good eggs they threw nothing but gorgeous orange agalmas.there were 3 that i know of over the years that did fade somewhat as well. i have one of them here. bred back to offspring again just nice orange agalmas.sibling to sibling the same nice orange agalmas. what seemed to happen, especially to the female, as they aged, they faded. these guys are over 12 years old and i thought i was retiring them when i sold them to you as pets. guess not. you bred them last year, did you get anything abberant? if so i'd love to see them. i really thought i told you all this but maybe i didn't. anyway i hope this clears up the mystery of the hypo-erythristic San Pedro Mountain Kings.
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Snakeyes herpetoculture

n/p
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"