Reptile & Amphibian Forums

These are PICs I have taken of several of my Peruvian Rainbow Boas over the last several years. This subspecies Epicartes cenchria gaigei is very similar to the Brazilian Rainbow Boas and identifying them by color and pattern differences is not definitive. Gaigei generally are larger heavier snakes and generally have thicker and darker dark markings but the only way to positively identify the subspecies is through scale counting. On some larger adult specimens the fewer and larger scales are noticeable. Scale counts are difficult on small animals and so definite identification is difficult.

Wow, beautiful snakes Jeff. I really like the intense reds that a couple of those show.
Milo

Wow! I love the thicker lines and the rich colors, especially the ones in the tub. Are you pairing these this year? I'd love to come shop at your place if you are.

The two in the tub are both females. I have a brother from the same litter that is not as pretty. Those two females and one other female from the litter are just large enough this year. They have been with three different males but so far I have not seen any mating. A much larger older female has been bred by two different males this year. She has been bred in past years without producing babies. There are only a couple of people successfully breeding gaigei in the US.

>>Wow! I love the thicker lines and the rich colors, especially the ones in the tub. Are you pairing these this year? I'd love to come shop at your place if you are.

Jeff do you think there is something different in the reproductive biology of these snakes that makes them more difficult to breed or just a smaller population of captive specimens making it appear to be that way ?
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Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
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Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Frank,
...I do think there are much fewer of them than people think they have. Perhaps some people think they have real Peruvians but do not have a pair of true Peruvians and they are trying to breed Brazilians with Peruvians. Perhaps the subspecies is more different than it seems and captive intergrade breeding is not so easy. I am honestly not sure why I have not produced any live babies from mine.
Jeff

>>Jeff do you think there is something different in the reproductive biology of these snakes that makes them more difficult to breed or just a smaller population of captive specimens making it appear to be that way ?
>>-----
>>=========================================================
>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>=========================================================
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>
>>
>>
>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Jeff,

I am curious to know if your specimens where captive raised from babies and where you got them from and if not from imports where the person procured them ?

I also am curious if Peruvians come from an ecosystem that is substantially different from Brazilians in regards to temperature variations and if they need to utilize different microclimate situations in regards to their survival.

It may be possible this subspecies requires substantial thermo cycling to successfully reproduce or if your animals where obtained as adults that you considered sub-adults they have different biological rhythms in place that are not the easiest to reset and therefore are rhythmically incompatible.

IMO there has to be some kind of reason.

I believe it is somehow related to a difference from Brazilians or an incompatibility of your specimens relating to some biological systems difference that is tough or prolonged in nature to reestablish.

Biological necessitations of reproductions can perhaps take several generations (of captive breeding) to become less problematic in the captive environment due to many generations of programing from the ecosystems these snakes come from, especially in regards to thermo cycling.

>>Frank,
>>...I do think there are much fewer of them than people think they have. Perhaps some people think they have real Peruvians but do not have a pair of true Peruvians and they are trying to breed Brazilians with Peruvians. Perhaps the subspecies is more different than it seems and captive intergrade breeding is not so easy. I am honestly not sure why I have not produced any live babies from mine.
>>Jeff
>>
>>>>Jeff do you think there is something different in the reproductive biology of these snakes that makes them more difficult to breed or just a smaller population of captive specimens making it appear to be that way ?
>>>>-----
>>>>=========================================================
>>>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>>>=========================================================
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>Frank Roberts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Frank,
...All of my Peruvians except one have been here since they were babies. I have them from four different sources. I also think that there may be substantial differences in their native habitat that are causing them to have different requirements than BRBs for reproduction.
Jeff

>>Jeff,
>>
>>I am curious to know if your specimens where captive raised from babies and where you got them from and if not from imports where the person procured them ?
>>
>>I also am curious if Peruvians come from an ecosystem that is substantially different from Brazilians in regards to temperature variations and if they need to utilize different microclimate situations in regards to their survival.
>>
>>It may be possible this subspecies requires substantial thermo cycling to successfully reproduce or if your animals where obtained as adults that you considered sub-adults they have different biological rhythms in place that are not the easiest to reset and therefore are rhythmically incompatible.
>>
>>IMO there has to be some kind of reason.
>>
>>I believe it is somehow related to a difference from Brazilians or an incompatibility of your specimens relating to some biological systems difference that is tough or prolonged in nature to reestablish.
>>
>>Biological necessitations of reproductions can perhaps take several generations (of captive breeding) to become less problematic in the captive environment due to many generations of programing from the ecosystems these snakes come from, especially in regards to thermo cycling.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Frank,
>>>>...I do think there are much fewer of them than people think they have. Perhaps some people think they have real Peruvians but do not have a pair of true Peruvians and they are trying to breed Brazilians with Peruvians. Perhaps the subspecies is more different than it seems and captive intergrade breeding is not so easy. I am honestly not sure why I have not produced any live babies from mine.
>>>>Jeff
>>>>
>>>>>>Jeff do you think there is something different in the reproductive biology of these snakes that makes them more difficult to breed or just a smaller population of captive specimens making it appear to be that way ?
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>=========================================================
>>>>>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>>>>>=========================================================
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Frank Roberts
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
>>-----
>>=========================================================
>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>=========================================================
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>
>>
>>
>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Something is def dif in my opinion from the info you just gave me.

>>Frank,
>>...All of my Peruvians except one have been here since they were babies. I have them from four different sources. I also think that there may be substantial differences in their native habitat that are causing them to have different requirements than BRBs for reproduction.
>>Jeff
>>
>>>>Jeff,
>>>>
>>>>I am curious to know if your specimens where captive raised from babies and where you got them from and if not from imports where the person procured them ?
>>>>
>>>>I also am curious if Peruvians come from an ecosystem that is substantially different from Brazilians in regards to temperature variations and if they need to utilize different microclimate situations in regards to their survival.
>>>>
>>>>It may be possible this subspecies requires substantial thermo cycling to successfully reproduce or if your animals where obtained as adults that you considered sub-adults they have different biological rhythms in place that are not the easiest to reset and therefore are rhythmically incompatible.
>>>>
>>>>IMO there has to be some kind of reason.
>>>>
>>>>I believe it is somehow related to a difference from Brazilians or an incompatibility of your specimens relating to some biological systems difference that is tough or prolonged in nature to reestablish.
>>>>
>>>>Biological necessitations of reproductions can perhaps take several generations (of captive breeding) to become less problematic in the captive environment due to many generations of programing from the ecosystems these snakes come from, especially in regards to thermo cycling.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Frank,
>>>>>>...I do think there are much fewer of them than people think they have. Perhaps some people think they have real Peruvians but do not have a pair of true Peruvians and they are trying to breed Brazilians with Peruvians. Perhaps the subspecies is more different than it seems and captive intergrade breeding is not so easy. I am honestly not sure why I have not produced any live babies from mine.
>>>>>>Jeff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Jeff do you think there is something different in the reproductive biology of these snakes that makes them more difficult to breed or just a smaller population of captive specimens making it appear to be that way ?
>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>=========================================================
>>>>>>>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>>>>>>>=========================================================
>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Frank Roberts
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
>>>>-----
>>>>=========================================================
>>>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>>>=========================================================
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>Frank Roberts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Well I guess I'd fail at it since I seem to want to put 2 girls together - doh!

Best of luck with them. Doesnt sound hopeful with the older girl, but maybe you'll hit the right combo this year. Once you're successful, it'll be interesting to read your thoughts.

>>These are PICs I have taken of several of my Peruvian Rainbow Boas over the last several years. This subspecies Epicartes cenchria gaigei is very similar to the Brazilian Rainbow Boas and identifying them by color and pattern differences is not definitive. Gaigei generally are larger heavier snakes and generally have thicker and darker dark markings but the only way to positively identify the subspecies is through scale counting. On some larger adult specimens the fewer and larger scales are noticeable. Scale counts are difficult on small animals and so definite identification is difficult.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.