Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK any suggestions would help. I bought a snake at the Tampa show from a guy who didnt know what he was doing when I asked what sex the snake was he popped her and I think he may have broken her. I've had her 3 weeks now and she hasnt eaten. I've tried grapefruit seed oil in her water.I've tried braining. Short of force feeding her I dont know what to do. She is isolated temp is good, fresh water, hide box, and no handling. I've also got one who regurts but hasnt lost any weight and she as well is isolated and being given grapefruit oil. She hasnt eaten in 2 weeks. I have over 50 corns. So any suggestion would be apperciated.

Please take the snake to a qualified vet.

Most vets will charge a very reasonable fee for an evaluation.

Good luck, and I hope the critters are OK.

Peace,
Wayne A. Harvey
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1.2.9 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garter Snakes
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - common Garter - Princess
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua"
0.1.10 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly Racers
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
0.1.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
1.2.0. Feline"Felix" "Kaja" & "Silver"
0.1.0. calico RAT
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

That's really impossible to say exactly what could be wrong with the information given, however, if you really think the guy crushed the snake, the ONLY person who could help you(but more importantly, the snake) is a qualified reptile vet as Wayne already suggested. In my opinion,.....the sooner, the better!

BTW, if "popped" incorrectly, snakes can CERTAINLY get injured, that said, what gave you the strong feeling he crushed the snake?, because when this is done, it can really look unpleasant to some folks, and might give the "appearance" that it possibly harmed the snake. On the other hand,.....he very well could have.

In any case, I hope the snake pulls through whatever the problem is.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

>> I've tried grapefruit seed oil in her water.I've tried braining..... also got one who regurts but hasnt lost any weight and she as well is isolated and being given grapefruit oil. >>>

I've never heard of this before?
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Mike Heinrich,
708-428-5616
Mike@amazontreeboa.org
http://www.amazontreeboa.org

Kathy Love, and some others, have found "Grapfruit-seed" EXTRACT(don't know about the oil, could be the same thing) to be beneficial in replenishing the enzymes/acids in the stomach needed for proper digestion, especially in snakes that have previously regurged. A couple drops added to the waterbowl is supposed to be sufficient.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Thanks. Like I said, I never heard of that before. I've heard of people using probiotics for snakes that regurge, that's probably the same principal.

>>Kathy Love, and some others, have found "Grapfruit-seed" EXTRACT(don't know about the oil, could be the same thing) to be beneficial in replenishing the enzymes/acids in the stomach needed for proper digestion, especially in snakes that have previously regurged. A couple drops added to the waterbowl is supposed to be sufficient.
>>
>>
>> ~Doug
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>>"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Heinrich,
708-428-5616
Mike@amazontreeboa.org
http://www.amazontreeboa.org

n/p
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

GSE is a natural remedy for GI disorders. It is supposed to remedy bacterial, fungal, and viral disorders without killing off the normal gut flora. Some go by it, some think it's quackery.

Probiotics are the addition of native flora that are supposed to balance out the gut. A good quality probiotic has a standard amount of well-known bacteria. It's a definite go, no controversy there!

to use the GSE as a sort of natural antibiotic to keep water clean (whenever I change the water) and to help kill unwanted microbes. As far as I know, it doesn't help replenish anything - just kill the "bad guys". I even used it on hubby with some success after he picked up a bad "stomach bug" in Madagascar one year. It has been used as an antiseptic, water purifier, and on livestock in many countries for a very long time.

If the GSE is not helping the regurges, then I usually stop the GSE (because I don't know FOR SURE that it doesn't kill some of the "good guys" too), and switch to Nutri Bac. Nutri Bac contains several (6, I think) microbes that are SUPPOSED to be in the reptile gut, but might not be for some reason. That is what might replenish what has been lost. NB for your herps is like people eating live yogurt cultures, especially after they have been sick or have taken antibiotics.

I have seen some real miracles with the NB, and I have seen some cases where it changed nothing. Guess it depends on what is causing it. But the good thing is that it can do no harm, and it might help a lot. Just keep the powder cool and dry until you use it, and it lasts a long time. If the snake has regurged more than once or twice, I take it off food and tube feed the NB every few days for 3 or 4 times before offering food again.

Thanks for the detailed info
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Heinrich,
708-428-5616
Mike@amazontreeboa.org
http://www.amazontreeboa.org

Thanks for clarifying the GSE use, I just assumed the highly acidic properties of the citrus oil, helped the digestion process, rather than just killed some bacteria, etc...

I've done some reading up about this "NutriBac" probiotic, and it seems like it has some very possible benefits. It actually sounds like it works on the the same principal as the enzyme powder added to septic tanks. These additional enzymes really help eat up the solid waste.

I could be wrong, but this "NutriBac" might even be the very same stuff. It would be interesting to find out that it really is. I'll look into this a little further sometime, and see what I can dig up.

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Being 3:00 am, I wasn't thinking too clearly when I first started typing my previous post, because killing some of the bad bacteria is REALLY what should be done first anyway, and bad bacteria/pathogens, among other things(amoeba/protozoa)would be contributing to the snake's regurges in the FIRST place. So with more bad bacteria being eradicated, only THEN can the snake's stomach begin to properly digest.

So in short, yes, I see the benefit in using the GSE first, then if like you mentioned, things didn't clear up, start administration of some NutriBac.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

There's another probiotic called Benebac on the market as well as Nutribac. It's been used in the lizard world for quite some time. There's also quite a few products sold for human supplements. Since I take it myself, I share it with my lizards, and they don't seem to mind. In the iguana world, it's said to reduce the incidence of Salmonella by 95%. I'm not sure how reliable that data is...

About some of the Salmonella reducing properties this stuff has over a period of time, and it does "seem" to benefit in this area as well......thanks for that additional brand name of this product.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

hoping to kill off some of the bad bugs first. However, the idea is that by adding huge numbers of the "good bugs", that they will out compete the pathogens just by their sheer numbers. If the pathogens are not TOO virulent, and if the immune system is reasonably good, you may not have to kill off the problem microbes - they just won't be able to compete with what is really supposed to be there.

It is the whole idea behind people eating yogurt - and for all of the newer commercials you see now for "Activia" and several other yogurt type foods that are supposed to help your digestion. By adding all of that "good stuff", they will hopefully out number and use the food and resources that the pathogens might otherwise utilize.

There are lots of different species of probiotics for humans at the local health food store. I have used them myself. What I don't know is if the exact same species that should inhabit a human or bird gut is what should be in a reptile. That is why I use the one made for herps. Maybe some microbiologist on this forum might have an answer to that?

n/p
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

just started using NutriBac for the first time.....

I got 2 more bottles......

you are correct Kathy.some snakes it's maybe a miracle and others it did nothing.and I just started using it....

......some snakes just stopped eating and I shot some NB mixture into them and they ate with gusto......

.....others you could see the bacterial lump go away almost right away.and they ate normally.and fecal matter was not smelly and was normal colored right away....and we all know corns use the word fecal matter every few hours it seems......

...we used to use Amiglyde and give it orally to them.....

.....some Zoo my friend says just rubs the food item into a good, healthy snakes' fecal matter and feeds the sick snake that, and the good microbes in the good feces will re-gut-load the sick snake......gross....I'd rather eat NB

LOL
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The fecal smearing thing sounds like it could be plausible, but with NutriBac, there is certainly no risk whatsoever of cross-contamination of anything else in the feces,.......not to mention the grossness of it, like you mentioned...LOL!

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"