Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've posted this before but to no avail. Can anyone tell me if there are any problems with feeding a boa two live mice in one sitting? I prefer to keep her on live meals, and she has started refusing medium-sized rats...I don't think one large mouse will fill her, but I didn't know if I should wait a week before giving her the second mouse...

IMHO, snakes should be fed dead mice. Especially if you do two at one time. There is always chance of a mouse hurting a snake if the snake doesn't eat it right away, and if there is a second mouse in the cage, that increases the risk of injury while the snake is eating the other one.

But that's just me and I'm new. Anybody else?

Ummm... This may sound stupid, but since you "prefer" to feed live and want to feed two, why not just put them in there one at a time? I assume you are observing it feeding, and the snake can't swallow them two at a time, so when it gets done with the first one throw the second one in there.

But, like the other post said. I have to wonder why you "prefer" to feed live in the first place... If it is based on "YOUR" requirements, (i.e. Like to see the action of a live feeding) then you are not doing the snake you keep any good and are in fact putting it at a much greater risk of injury than need be. You may have some sort of reason that is valid, though I can't think of any. But there is your answer.

>>I've posted this before but to no avail. Can anyone tell me if there are any problems with feeding a boa two live mice in one sitting? I prefer to keep her on live meals, and she has started refusing medium-sized rats...I don't think one large mouse will fill her, but I didn't know if I should wait a week before giving her the second mouse...

just for your information i was able to switch a few on my not rat eaters over by putting the rat in a bag with dirty mouse bedding to get the mouse scent on the rat. it worked like a charm. Good luck.
Ben
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1.0 Black Rat
0.0.1 Normal Corn
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.1 blue beauty

Great idea! I will have to remember that myself! *makes mental note and files in unused file cabinet, disturbing cobwebs *

There is no problem with feeding two mice at a meal. There ARE many problems associated with feeding live mice, some of which have already been mentioned. Another is parasites. Freezing will kill most of the parasites that mice can carry and communicate to your snake. There are no valid reasons I can think of for continuing to feed live mice or rats to your snake. One objection may be keeping them in the freezer near your food, but believe me that is much more sanitary than keeping live rodents in your house. If you are going to the pet store and buying them on an as-needed basis, then you should at least kill them before you put them in the cage with your snake. If you want to feed two, then just kill both of them and put them in the cage at the same time. Your Boa should eat them dead with no problems. I keep a lot of snakes. All of them will eat dead food. Some of them take some effort at first to get them to eat what you want, but they will all eventually come around.

I prefer to feed live because first of all, she has always eaten live, and second because I am one of those types that likes to keep animals as close to natural environments as possible. If snakes were meant to dead frozen mice, they wouldn't come equipped with that whole striking/constricting mechanism...I just like to stick with what nature gave them. Go figure.

I supervise feedings always, for obvious reasons. I would wait before putting the second one in. She has eaten two rats in one sitting before, but that was before I owned her. The last two times we tried to feed her she refused the rat, that was when we resorted to the smaller mice.

I am going to continue to feed her live meals. I'm going to try small rats, now that I am in an area that I have access to smaller rats than before. (I moved to college and there's a petco across campus) I am just afraid that one small rat will not be enough to fill her. However, I read an article on here about two rats causing problems with blocking the digestive system. But, would she WANT to eat one a week? Hmmmm..sounds like I'm just going to have to experiment.

I write this knowing that I probably won't change your mind but.... The reasons you gave for feeding live were very weak... Sounds to me like you just like to "watch the kill" more than anything. Good luck to your snake, I have a bad feeling that one day you will change your mind on this subject, but it will probably be at the expense of your snakes health. OLDHERPER would be better able to explain the why's of F/T feeding to you than I could. But sounds like your mind is closed to that. (bad thing for a college student to have their mind closed)

>>I prefer to feed live because first of all, she has always eaten live, and second because I am one of those types that likes to keep animals as close to natural environments as possible. If snakes were meant to dead frozen mice, they wouldn't come equipped with that whole striking/constricting mechanism...I just like to stick with what nature gave them. Go figure.
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>>I supervise feedings always, for obvious reasons. I would wait before putting the second one in. She has eaten two rats in one sitting before, but that was before I owned her. The last two times we tried to feed her she refused the rat, that was when we resorted to the smaller mice.
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>>I am going to continue to feed her live meals. I'm going to try small rats, now that I am in an area that I have access to smaller rats than before. (I moved to college and there's a petco across campus) I am just afraid that one small rat will not be enough to fill her. However, I read an article on here about two rats causing problems with blocking the digestive system. But, would she WANT to eat one a week? Hmmmm..sounds like I'm just going to have to experiment.

*sigh* This is getting frustrating... TO defend myself, I don't enjoy "watching the kill". Sure, it's interesting and fascinating, but after seeing it several times, it's not like I break out the popcorn and invite the neighborhood over. That has nothing to do with my feeding live. I feed live, like I explained before, because that is the way snakes were intended to eat. Period. Call me "old-fashioned".

Now, if we could PLEASE get back to my question, is there any physical harm in feeding two large mice in one sitting? (Yes, put the second one in after she finishes the first) Or would it be healthier to feed one every week?

there's no problem with feeding two mice at one time.

And...it's your snake. Feed it live animals if you want.

However, by your logic, we should all be throwing live rabbits into the back yard to feed our dogs.

>>she has started refusing medium-sized rats
>>I am one of those types that likes to keep animals as close to natural environments as possible

Have you considered the possibility that your boa has become intimidated by the larger live animals? A cage is NOT a natural environment, and your snake cannot just vacate the premises as it could in the wild if it feels threatened or merely uninterested.

>>I have access to smaller rats than before. (I moved to college and there's a petco across campus

Another reason to consider frozen/thawed food. Don’t be surprised if you end up with an infestation of snake mites eventually if some mites hitch a ride home on those pet store mice (or on you).

>>Can anyone tell me if there are any problems with feeding a boa two live mice in one sitting?

To answer your original question – It could eat two, or three, or ten mice in one sitting. You did not indicate how large your boa is. Let its willingness to feed be your guide.

-Joan

She is about 6 feet long. I had read one article on here somewhere that described how a snake could become seriously ill by the bones (primarily the skulls) of several rodents become blocked in the intestinal tract because they could not digest the two or three quickly enough. That is where my original question came from.

You are right, a snake enclosure is NOT the natural habitat. Forgive me if I just want to give my snake a chance to get a little more exercise and hone in the natural skills.

I have and will continue to consider feeding frozen/thawed mice...for the mites issue. That is something I should worry about, so I'll consider it for the health of my snake.

One more question though, the classroom in which she is now residing seems to have several fruit flies buzzing about. Could these present a problem to my boa, and if so, would a sticky fly trap over her enclosure do me any good?

Actually, weight is a better indicator of how much food a snake could or should consume in one meal. An animal could be a gaunt or an obese six footer, or anything in between. However, if the photo you posted in the Boa Forum (click here) is the animal we’re talking about, it could easily accommodate the largest lab rat you could find. However, an appropriate feeding regimen might be one or two 200 gram rats every two or three weeks. I’m not one to advocate huge meals, but feeding that animal one mouse per week will result in weight loss, not maintenance or gain.

>>I had read one article on here somewhere that described how a snake could become seriously ill by the bones (primarily the skulls) of several rodents become blocked in the intestinal tract because they could not digest the two or three quickly enough.

No, as long as the environment in which you are keeping this boa is appropriate, it will not become ill as the result of any blockage. It evolved to feed this way.

>>… the classroom in which she is now residing seems to have several fruit flies buzzing about. Could these present a problem to my boa, and if so, would a sticky fly trap over her enclosure do me any good?

If they are just fruit flies – no problem. A sticky fly trap would do no harm as long as it is not impregnated with insecticide, but is unnecessary. If, on the other hand, they are the kind of little flies that one finds around feces in a cage – then the cage needs some attention. This is not a dig; I sometimes find them during the summer if I don’t keep right on top of cage maintenance.

>>You are right, a snake enclosure is NOT the natural habitat. Forgive me if I just want to give my snake a chance to get a little more exercise and hone in the natural skills.

I rarely waste my time on posts containing sarcasm and with subject lines like “Hmmm…” You asked for advice (both here and on the Boa Forum) and people gave it. In determining your husbandry practices, you might factor in who has the most experience.

-Joan

Yes, that's her. She is 15 lbs, around 6 feet long. I have no other weights to compare her to, do you think that is a decent weight for her? ; ) I handle her as often as possible, and that is looking like every other day, so she should be getting a decent amount of exercise I hope.

I checked out Petco yesterday and they have several sizes of rats. Do you think that color could be an issue? A friend who recently got a ball python mentioned something about her snake refusing white rats. My girl was previously eating mostly brown rats, and when we switched pet stores, they only had white...do you t hink that could play a role in her refusal of the rats, or is that taking it a little too far...

>>She is 15 lbs, around 6 feet long. I have no other weights to compare her to, do you think that is a decent weight for her?

I guess it’s all relative, and she does look good, but there’s probably no reason that she couldn’t easily double her weight as well as add a couple of feet if you chose to offer her more (and larger) prey items.

>> My girl was previously eating mostly brown rats, and when we switched pet stores, they only had white...do you t hink that could play a role in her refusal of the rats….

I’ve certainly seen that belief expressed before, but have had no personal experience with it being true. I would think that an animal that is primarily a nocturnal hunter would be little inclined to this sort of visual conditioning.

One experience I had with feeding live rats might be of interest – one very large boa I used to have struck and constricted a live rat which struggled enough that it managed to break free. That snake shied away from feeding for a rather long time thereafter.

And finally, you said by feeding her live food you wished to “hone in the natural skills.” With a pair of long tongs or forceps you could have her chasing dead food around the cage for as long as you wished to keep it moving.

-Joan

Two mice should be no problem, but to be on the safe side I would introduce them one at a time. Let the snake finish off the first one before introducing the second. The dangers of feeding live prey have been hit upon many times in these forums; the danger would be elevated if there are two mice running around in there at the same time, e.g., the snake is busy eating one, leaving him/her vulnerable to possible agression from the other.

I believe there are some finicky snakes that, for whatever reason, prefer rodents of a particular color. As far as I know there is no practical reason for this, it's just a personality issue when a snake decides it would rather feed on, say, white mice and not brown or black ones. Trial and error will determine the situation with any given individual.

BTW, I know the live vs. f/t argument has been beaten to death (no pun intended here), but one advantage of live prey that I've heard is better nutrition than f/t. The latter lose nutrients in the freezing process. Is there any truth to this?

If one wants to stay with live prey, and pre-kill the mice, what is the most efficient and humane way to pre-kill?
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MichaelB