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Large male anole seems depressed? and a few other questions.

C.huanG Aug 29, 2003 02:02 PM

For a few months i had 2 male anoles living together, they seemed fine no fighting or the such, eating and drinking nice green color frequently. I introduced a female several months later to give them some company. All seemed have to have gone quite well except now my large male anole. He doens't hang around on the branches as much anymore and he is pretty deep brown most of the time. He doens't eat as much anymore, and when he sleeps its always by himself under a plastic den thing that i made. He seems to just want to lie around a lot under there and not to anything else. He comes out for food once in while but appears to be getting skinnier. I feed them mealworms, crickets, and waxworms. Is this another case of getting picky for food or do anoles have "bored" phases? He's been like this for about a week now. Other questions, i read that anoles can eat moths, around here there are most commonly small ones with dull colored orangeish wings. Should i put one in experimentally? Also, i find it hard to handle anoles when i read that they should hardly be disurbed if possible. How does one go about handling an anole? They run at the slightest movement or sound...

Thanks for all the time and help, Chris.

Replies (9)

lele Aug 29, 2003 03:35 PM

Hi Chris,

here are some thoughts and suggestions:

First, I would move the "depressed" into another setup right away. Even though the two males seemed OK together, we never REALLY know what's in an anole's head

Once the female came on the scene there was bound to be a hierarchy set up and one male will dominate the other. Period. It sure seems obvious who got the girl! Even if you have not witnessed any of them displaying it doesn’t mean that all is well. I am sure if you don’t move him soon you will lose him.

Once you get him setup alone for awhile and he knows that he doesn’t have to compete for food or water (several weeks) you could introduce a female (make sure it is female and not another male) and that’s IF you want babies, which you may already have from the other pair!

Re: moths. I raise a lot of different Lepidoptera (moths and butterflies) as a hobby and I would suggest not feeding any moths, or caterpillars, unless you have PROPERLY identified it and KNOW for sure it is not toxic. In nature orange and black are typically, not always, but often, a sign of poison. The monarch butterfly is toxic (because the caterpillar feeds on Milkweed plants which have a toxic/irritant sap) and birds learn not to eat critters with these colors. Most of the small ones that you get flitting around your lights at night are probably OK but do you want to risk it? There is a great moth i.d. site by state www.npsc.nbs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/moths/mothsusa.htm

As for handling: they are shy, skittish creatures and do not like to be handled. You probably know from reading or experience that if grabbed by their tail it will break off. Obviously you will have to handle him to move him into a new setup (be sure to have this set so you can just move him from one to the other for a smooth transition). You can try to use a small fish net (used for aquarium fish – not the biggies!). Better yet, go to the link below on handling. While you are there check out his whole site – it is the best on the web (well, in my opinion)

Hope all this helps you and your little buddy out!

lele

Anole Handling

C.huanG Aug 30, 2003 12:46 AM

Thanks very much for the above advice. Sorry, but i have a few more questions on the same topic. After introducing another female and a competition free area to my depressed anole im assuming its ok to reintroduce them both to the other pair? And if i were to do this after he seems to recover is it possible that "his" female will...ditch him for the other male resulting in more depression. Im thinking this is more a human device but just wondering. BTW the depressed male was actually the larger of the two, i found it a bit odd that he would be the one that was rejected? The anoles setups in petstores that i see always seem to have the largest anoles literally on top of the ladder (or wood stump) while the others are chased away or hang around on the ground.

Thanks again for your time and advice, Chris.

lele Aug 30, 2003 09:42 AM

Hi Chris, happy to help. No, it is never a good idea to have more than 1 male together unless they are in a HUGE enclosure with LOTS and LOTS of palnts, etc. This is in part why pet store herps are often stressed (along with improper care and other issues) b/c they have the males and females all thrown in together

The male being larger or older has little to do with dominance or agressin. There may be any number of reasons why the other claimed the territory. Be sure to look over the info on the site I gave you. It is all well written and easy to read - and a wealth of info.

As for being depressed...well, you’re right, it is a human thing. We often anthropomorphize (give human characteristics to other animals) and I am one of the best! I had an entomology (insect) professor constantly remind me that insects don’t think and feel as wee do - if at all. But I think it is much more interesting to do it, don’t you? LOL!

Again, I direct you to Al’s page. Go to http://www.kingsnake.com/anolecare/9.htm, scroll down to Cage size to Anole population ratios and read the whole thing – especially about anoles being happier alone. Also, read this entire page http://www.kingsnake.com/anolecare/pop.htm. Believe me, his advice is based on a lot more experience than I have had! I had to separate a male (the larger of the two, btw) for the same reasons as you -stress and dominance. Initially I thought I had 2 f and 1 m but it turned out reversed.

So my final thought is get that guy out ASAP and wait quite awhile to introduce a female. And you may find that he is perfectly happy all by himself

lele

>>Thanks very much for the above advice. Sorry, but i have a few more questions on the same topic. After introducing another female and a competition free area to my depressed anole im assuming its ok to reintroduce them both to the other pair? And if i were to do this after he seems to recover is it possible that "his" female will...ditch him for the other male resulting in more depression. Im thinking this is more a human device but just wondering. BTW the depressed male was actually the larger of the two, i found it a bit odd that he would be the one that was rejected? The anoles setups in petstores that i see always seem to have the largest anoles literally on top of the ladder (or wood stump) while the others are chased away or hang around on the ground.
>>
>>Thanks again for your time and advice, Chris.

hhawk20005 Aug 30, 2003 09:43 AM

NOOOOOOO. just leave them together in the seperate enclosure. you should never have housed 2 males together in the 1st place. They will not recognise each other, and they will end up fighting (prolly until the death) your bwetter off keepingf them as they are.
-----
Matt
Owner of:
1.0.0 Brown (Bahaman) Anole
0.1.0 Green Anole
0.2.0 leopard geckos (temperature sexed)

C.huanG Aug 31, 2003 02:38 AM

I have moved the male out and he seems to be much better already within these couple days. I plan to get a female for him within a week or so...Eh...next problem might be with too many hatchlings? Been skimming the links and reading stuff from other sites as well about housing and stressing, thanks for everything.

lele Aug 31, 2003 10:46 AM

Chris,

His looking better already is a good sign (and also reinforces the strees/dominance theory)

My brown was gravid when I got her but has yet to lay as far as I can tell. I put in a moist container of eco-earth but see no disturbance - yet. I too, wonder about the hatchlings. I would have to make sure they go to excellant homes or just keep them myself! I would never sell them to a pet store or to anyone who will use them as feeders! Can you imagine feeding your pet anole to a snake? Just tossing it in the tank like we do with crickets? - to each his own....

Make sure you gut is happy, eating and drinking b/f getting him a girlfriend

Enjoy! Oh, btw, the site I sent you has repro/baby info

lele

>>I have moved the male out and he seems to be much better already within these couple days. I plan to get a female for him within a week or so...Eh...next problem might be with too many hatchlings? Been skimming the links and reading stuff from other sites as well about housing and stressing, thanks for everything.

C.huanG Sep 03, 2003 01:08 AM

Just wondering cuz mine are just a lot more active at night then they are in the day time. I can hear them jumping around and eating. Also with shedded skin, do anoles eat this or what? The female and male were both shedding and i can't find a trace of the skin except for a small piece.

lele Sep 03, 2003 11:12 AM

Generally they are not nocturnal. Mine climb to their sleeping spots before lights out! My brown never sleeps or eats - well it seems that way, b/c anytime I peek in on her she is staring right back! You can spy on them using a red light bulb to see what they are up to. Is this since you separated them?

>>Just wondering cuz mine are just a lot more active at night then they are in the day time. I can hear them jumping around and eating. Also with shedded skin, do anoles eat this or what? The female and male were both shedding and i can't find a trace of the skin except for a small piece.

C.huanG Sep 07, 2003 07:03 PM

Hmm...they might have always been more active during the night though yes i've only noticed it after seperating them.

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