Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok, so as you may know from my other posts, im on about a kindergarten level of genetics, so please bare with me.

I guess colour and pattern both have genes that cause them. so if you have a strange patterned snakes, by breeding it to a normal, will the babies look normal, but be het for the pattern?

As i have a knew group of very interesting patterned BRB, which i would like to in the future breed the anery gene into, the pattern on the sides includes circles that are nearly completely filled with colour and void of black. Ie somewhat like daves pearls, well sort of.

How would i approach getting the anery gene into that pattern? In some sense im trying to work out of pattern can ever be dominant over colour or vice versa. would be amazing to see an anery with this pattern as would be a snake with full white circles on the side!!!
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Dave

1.2 Normal BRBs
0.1 Anery BRB
2.1 66% poss het anery BRB
1.1 het hypo BRB

It depends on if the pattern is codominant or recessive. Patterns can be either. Maybe someone with more direct experience can tell you, but I think they're usually codominant. So you would breed your patterned snake to a anery to get het anery babies. You'd select the babies showing the pattern breed them together and out of the 25% that should be anery... hopefully, some will show that pattern. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Basically yes.

You need to determine the genetic inheritance of each morph. Once known, then you can figure out how to get there. Easiest would be two dom morphs, could get duals in one gen. I believe the anery is a recessive so will take two gens.

If the pattern morph is dom, then it's as simple as breeding pattern to anery and keeping one or more pattern babies het for anery. Those bred together or to another anery will produce some babies with oth traits.

If the pattern morph is recessive, a lot more difficult. Pattern to anery for DH babies. Breeding the DH babies will produce mostly normal 66% pos hets, a few pattern 66% pos het anery, a few anery 66% pos het pattern and hipefully at least one pattern &$43 anery baby. (1/16 odds on the double recessive morph)

>>It depends on if the pattern is codominant or recessive. Patterns can be either. Maybe someone with more direct experience can tell you, but I think they're usually codominant. So you would breed your patterned snake to a anery to get het anery babies. You'd select the babies showing the pattern breed them together and out of the 25% that should be anery... hopefully, some will show that pattern. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

so im curious about something here and i dont mean to assume anything or sound insulting, so forgive me if i do...

i see that you dont know a whole lot about this, as you admit. trust me i myself dont know a whole lot more, but like you have plenty of questions.

i may be wrong here but the impression i get is that you are new to breeding? if im wrong then ignore this post and tell me to sut up and MYOB!!

if you are a new breeder i was just wondering how you get a collection like yours right out of the gun? you ave anerys, het anerys, hypos and het hypo? to me this doesnt sounds like the beginners collection. thats also a big investment there are allot of snakes worth big money.

but then again maybe money isnt a worry to you like it is to me, if thats the case then im jealous lol and would say what the h3ll why not

at the same time it still seems a little backwards to me, getting into something then asking "what will happen". i would love to get into breeding and hopefully i will soon, but i am gonna start with a breeding pair... maybe a breeding trio... but then cost is a big issue for me, however even if it where not an issue i dont think i would jump right into all morph projects right off the bat, its hard to say

anyways i may by way off in thinking that but please dont take offense and i dont mean to assume just a curiosity that got the best of me
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-Stephen-

0.1 soon to be wifey (hopefully)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer-wifey's pooch)
1.0 norm corn (Jake aka grumpy old terdhead)
0.1 col redtail boa (Dixie-my baby girl)
0.1 ball python (Bella- wifey's baby girl)

hopeful for not to distant future:
--brazillian rainbow boas 1 female for sure
2 or 3? maybe a breeding pair?
-- bearded dragon for the wifey my list got to big...

Yes i am new to breeding, And only recently have i become members of forums like this, and also been in contact with other breeders in finland where im living. im australian, and easier to be on forum like this as my finnish isnt that good

As for my morphs, well i have anery, poss het anery, poss new line of poss het hypo (if that makes sense) on their way, and lockwood het hypos coming aswell after cites clear. i dont have any hypos.

Now in finland, where there arent that many breeders, a normal brazilian costs you close to 400 US dollars. As there just isnt that much interest, is much bigger in sweden, germany, netherlands etc. The first morphs i paid for were from lockwood, a group of breeders here are doing a big order and that cut the postage down by so much. And with the US dollar how it compares -to the euro, well a pair of het hypos is now like a pair of normals here. Seemed stupid not to get involved.

Now im certainly not made of money, wish i was, but enjoyed the hobby, and wanted to take it further, needed something else other than work, to keep me occupied. i also bred rex rabbit morphs for about 7years when i was younger, so got into the trying to find new colours etc etc habit. Albeit, its a lot easier with rabbits, 1 month gestations, and can breed them at a younger age.

As for my anerys, well they came from a breeder in eastern europe, and i won big time on the exchange rate again, the euro to the Czech Kc, is stupid, and he wanted to sell. as you may have read from previous posts, i was a bit sceptical about my anery, and you would be all very jealous if you knew what i had paid, but im very happy with them now, am sure from the seib line, and have seen birth pictures now, and they are much more black and white then. I have a male sibling in the post currently, so that i can truly see if i get a whole clutch of anerys.

Satisfied with the answer? sorry it so long!!!

You only live once anyway
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Dave

1.2 Normal BRBs
0.1 Anery BRB
2.1 66% poss het anery BRB
1.1 het hypo BRB

...everything just fell into place for you lol

Congrats on the run of good fortune getting all those specimens. Keep us posted on them and post progression photo's.

On a seperate note you can answer most of your questions by reviewing the punet square for genetic inheritance as well as looking up simple recessive, dominant, and codominant single gene expression. Also keep in mind that some expressions/traits are not the result of a single gene but rather the result of a multitude of genes all working together.

I don't mention those topics to discourage your questions but simply to save you time getting to the questions and answers that you really want.

Congrats again on the good luck with your BRB aqcuisitions. Reminds me of my triple het TPRS. I got them for what seemed alot at the time but now a year and a half later(not even breeding age yet) the price for triple het hatchlings has tripled

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

yeah cheers for that sean, yeah i guess i got a bit lucky on some things, looking at some web pages at the right time, and the currency being, well very nice to the euro at the moment

Yeah ive checked out a lot of the genetics style punnet squares and also looked at a few BCI genetics charts that some guy had on his website, ie this and that = this

Guess lots of my questions are pushing towards what we dont know yet, or are just assuming. with the collection i have build, i think i will be good stead, to play around with the morphs, albeit a few years behind the collings/lockwoods.

In some ways, maybe i have jumped way too much into the deep end, i could end up with too many adult snakes, that decide they are celibate or gay and refuse to ever breed for me!!!!! But without trying, how do you find out??

One major problem i will have is selling on the offspring, to me, im in it for the excitement, to see what can be produced, or to be the first to produce something. But of course i would like to receive at least my investment back. Because the community here is so small, selling in finland just wont happen, especially with the homozygous morphs. And we have no places here, or at least that i have found where you can wholesale off the normals. All this will make me focus on a smaller number of clutches produced, but while still trying to get the results. For example i have 2.5 66% poss het new line hypos coming. How on earth do i try to prove them out, find the 100% hets, and get some hypos, without producing a billion babies!!! All this will call for much planning, and i guess not wastin breedings for the sake of it. just breeding for the results that i want.
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Dave

1.2 Normal BRBs
0.1 Anery BRB
2.1 66% poss het anery BRB
1.1 het hypo BRB

I would find out the details of international sales from your area. Even with international expenses I suspect the homozygous offspring, beyond what you keep, will still be worth selling online/internationaly.

Is there much interest in reptiles in general arround where you live? If there is enough reptile interest you might try building a buisness base locally. For instance offering pet stores babies on commission. Basically they don't pay you till the baby sells. This might generate local interest as well as getting the store confident that they can sell them so they will be willing to buy them outright from you in the future.

Don't forget for any that the international expenses are not prohibitive you can sell them here on KS in the classified section.

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

yeah, definetely a few points to look at. from what i can tell, the reptile community is not huge in finland, the other breeders coming on with me are bringing in a bunch of balls from the states, i know some are bringing in albino, pieds etc, and as far as i know they will be the first here. In sweden, which is just a boat ride away there is a much bigger reptile community, with plenty of people breeding carpets, jags, dumerils, retics and balls. I think the swedes have a much bigger following as so close to germany (well relatively) and a lot of the morphs seem to originate from there. Could be wrong on that though. Sweden and the german shows hamm and houten would probably be my best chance.

Im finding out much more about importing and exporting with the process now, and i think that our cites has just cleared so that means we should have our snakes on the plane soon.

The worst thing about being this far away from the US, is i would love to do some trades with people in a few years for double hets etc, as i said before yeah any profit is great, but for the starting years, i just want to accumulate as many colours and patterns as possible, and as i have seen from the ball python market, it seems trades are a good way to go. I have thought in the future though, of sending over a larger shipment to the US and getting someone else to distribute them. As i learnt from my exporting experience now, there seems to be no point sending one long snake that far as the shipping alone, you are looking at 580US, will that was shipping and wildlife fees etc from US to here.

Ah many years to think about that though
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Dave

1.2 Normal BRBs
0.1 Anery BRB
2.1 66% poss het anery BRB
1.1 het hypo BRB

ohhh okay... so now it makes a little more sense, it was more you stumbled into a good opportunity, or got a lucky break, or just a good chance you would be crazy to pass it up.

okay so i know what you mean, i think if it where me and found a prefect situation like that to get those kinda snakes and stay in my means... your right i would jump on it.

the difference i was thinking to that was everything staying the same and just having that extra money to spend for no better reason than "just because".... thats what i mean when i said if it where me and money wasnt an issue i would still start slow, maybe not as slow as i have to start but instead of getting 1.1 or 1.2 i might get 2.2 or 2.3 instead MAYBE with a hypo or a het hypo in there as well.

i think thats more of what i was trying to get to, but you seemingly found yourself in a good situation and took advantage and i cant fault you for that. and again it was just a curiosity
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-Stephen-

0.1 soon to be wifey (hopefully)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer-wifey's pooch)
1.0 norm corn (Jake aka grumpy old terdhead)
0.1 col redtail boa (Dixie-my baby girl)
0.1 ball python (Bella- wifey's baby girl)

hopeful for not to distant future:
--brazillian rainbow boas 1 female for sure
2 or 3? maybe a breeding pair?
-- bearded dragon for the wifey my list got to big...