Reptile & Amphibian Forums

When we was camping. by my kids tent. so we had to kill it. we want to find out what kind of rattlesnake?

A precise location is necessary in order to make an accurate identification (city/region and state). The striping is unusual... I fear you may have killed a snake with a rare aberrant pattern, though I am not very knowledgeable about rattlers.

Whatever it is, people here generally aren't too happy to see snakes wacked over the head (especially if it is possibly a rare specimen). Please do not kill venomous snakes (or nonvenomous ones, for that matter) if it as all possible. A park ranger or other qualified individual probably could have relocated it for you.
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- Natalie
(San Francisco Bay Area)

1.0 Banded California King
1.0 Mexican Black King
1.0 Goini Kingsnake
1.0 Bay of LA Rosy Boa
0.1 San Ignacio Rosy Boa
0.1 Ortiz Rosy Boa
2.3 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1 Saharan Sand Boa
1.2 Rubber Boas
0.1 Pickering's Gartersnake

It looks to be a VERY uncommon aberrantly patterned Southern Pacific Rattlesnake(Crotalus oreganus helleri). Was this in the southern Cilifornia area?

It's too bad the snake was killed, as you were really venturing into IT'S territory, and not the other way around. Part of going camping is to let nature be left alone.

best regards, ~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Why does it matter what kind of rattler it was? It's dead now. If you'd found a hummingbird next to your kids' tent would you have killed it?

You could have simply shoo'd or moved the snake away with a long stick. Or maybe even whatever you used to brutally bludgeon it to death with.
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Diego

Whatever was used to beat the snake to death from a safe distance, could have just as easily been used to get it to leave back into the woods.

If they never go camping again, all the animals will be MUCH better off.

And like you mentioned, it really doesn't matter now in the least what kind it WAS!,......because now it's only the DEAD kind.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

first off, I agree with Dough's initial ID. That sure was one beautiful snake!

As was stated and has been observed, when you present these boards with a dead snake there is always some backlash from people who feel that its killing was unwarranted and cruel. I don't want to put myself apart from those people, I agree with them, but I do want to offer some constructive advice for the future.

You said that you were camping and that may or may not mean that you were at a state park or local campground so it's hard for me to know if you could have called the ranger to have the snake relocated. That aside, most states that have venomous snakes do have people trained and on call to deal with these situations and usually the is a list of phone numbers available so you can try and get in touch with someone nearby or a single number that will dispatch someone in your area. It would be wise in the future to look into this sort of thing if you think you will be in an area that may have venomous snakes. If it really is an option then as others have said, any stick long enough to kill the snake from a safe distance will also be long enough to shoo it away. Also, the snake will not bite a person unless if feels restrained or cornered. If you nudge it from a safe distance toward the woods it will not chase you down but instead escape to the woods and probably will not return that night, please try to keep that in mind.

I guess the last thing I want to say is that a dead snake is not exactly a safe snake. With Timber Rattlers a very large percent of people who are bit were bit by a DEAD snake. If a snake is recently killed it can still have reflex reactions so if you pick it up or touch it it can still strike!

Enjoy your future excursions into nature and please try to seek non-lethal alternatives the next time you encounter a venomous snake. Even with your kids there, it really would not have been a threat unless someone tried to pick it up.

I understand that you have kids and that you were trying to keep them from getting bitten, but you actually showed them it was ok to kill a snake that is too close to you. You were camping and intruding into the SNAKE'S territory. Most snakes will leave with some gentle encouragement. You could have picked the snake up with a long stick.

I know you're new to owning a snake, but what if that had been a wild counterpart of your snake? Would you have killed it?

Next time, call a ranger or use a long stick to move the snake. It'll set a better example for your kids.

As for the species, I'm not familiar with the rattlesnakes of the west an midwest.

my snake is the wild wild counterpart. the guy next door was going to kill it.

We where in AZ Pepper Sauce. The part that it the base of Rice Peak. A 4x4ing rd. No park ranger. 60 miles from help. My kids where in the tent crying and screaming. The snake was striking at the tent. We had to put the tent in the trash. It had venom on the side of the tent. We lost our 3yr old boxer 10 days before that from western diamond backin our back yard. We always move any snake we found in camp a safe distance putting in cloth bag with a stick.

The stick in the pic was found after we killed the snake with a big rock. The stick was hollow from Yucca plant.

Not up set by the backlash from people on here I know it would happen. It was bugging me what kind of snake it was. I have never seen a snake that mean-spirited.

The spots at the front of the snake are yellow.

I can understand being a little trigger happy after losing a family dog to a snake bite but there was no need to throw the tent away! Had I had a bucket/trash can/cooler around I would have shooed it in there and kept it in there as long as I was camping so I could let it go when we left. But I'll stop [bleep]in'...

To me it looks like the rattler did have an abbarent pattern making it a very prized possession for viper breeders. You may have to post it in a viper forum somewhere else to get a positive ID. Without a normal pattern its hard to tell.

Count me in on the *** off. You know, most people get bit trying to kill the snake. So you just increased your chance. You could have just put him in a bucket or something, walked him far off and let him go.

I agree, That is ONE GORGEOUS, rare looking abberant rattler... Sure to really upset any viper breeder.

As for your "mean spirited" comment. *rolls eyes*. YOU wandered into HIS home! He was being defensive! Not "mean spirited". Animals are not capable of those kind of emotions. But you are...

Venom is not toxic unless you inject it into the veins. You can drink rattlesnake venom and it would not hurt you because, as a protein, it is quickly denatured by stomach acid. Throwing away the tent was unecessary; you could have just wiped the venom off.

Additionally, it is highly unlikely that a rattler would repeatedly strike at a tent unless there was someone inside of it harassing the snake through the fabric.
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- Natalie
(San Francisco Bay Area)

1.0 Banded California King
1.0 Mexican Black King
1.0 Goini Kingsnake
1.0 Bay of LA Rosy Boa
0.1 San Ignacio Rosy Boa
0.1 Ortiz Rosy Boa
2.3 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1 Saharan Sand Boa
1.2 Rubber Boas
0.1 Pickering's Gartersnake

>>> "Additionally, it is highly unlikely that a rattler would repeatedly strike at a tent unless there was someone inside of it harassing the snake through the fabric"..........exactly!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

the tent was moving. b/c my 2 girls try to get away. the dogs was in the tent barking. wish I know we could just wash the tent. we did not have time to think. our kids where in danger.

we had D/B get in house. about 3 weeks ago. we took him out to field and let it go.about 3 miles a way. we live about 10 out from any town. with cotton field all around. the guy next door kills every snake he see.

Must enjoy his over-population of mice and rats, as well as some extra rattlesnakes on his property and surrounding area, as all these harmless snake's (kingsnakes, cornsnakes, racers, milksnakes, ratsnakes, etc...) all keep the population down of ALL the above.......so shame on the guy next door!

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

If you did that with the DB why couldn't you have just hiked a ways off to let the snake go? I don't believe you are that different from the guy next door... Just because you only sometimes kill.

What a waste!! You need to stay indoors!! Jeff

Maybe some day when people like this enter a snakes backyard the snake will kill them instead. Then they will know how the snake feels. Venomous snakes are not nasty, they are defensive!!!

That is a young AZ Black Rattlesnake (Crotalus cerberus).

I won't hound you for killing. Sometimes people kill snakes in campgrounds and around their kids and pets. I don't fault them for that.

Hopefully in the future, you will be able to find a different solution to the problem.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

this is completely random but whatever. I almost want to thank you for being one of the first people in a VERY long time to present photos of a dead snake that was actually dangerous! usually it's like "what's this snake I killed to protect my kids?" and it's a brownsnake or something harmless like that. I'm sure you're all too familiar with those cases, lol. The last possibly dangerous species posted dead here was so badly mutilated nobody here could tell if it was a cottonmouth or hognose!

I agree with the above statement.

However, does anyone know how much snake would be worth to a rattlesnake hobbiest? I think in snake species that have very few morphs all new morphs are treated as gold. That may have been a $1,000 snake (at least) you got rid of! Maybe more.

You're thinking a dollar value on this snake. What's lost isn't monetary but instead the value of this snake's potential contribution to it's species at a time when habitat destruction & general human ignorance seems determined to exterminate them, no matter what. What seems most pertinent is the fact that the snake is lost from population, not how much it might have been worth to a breeder.

Its obvious the life of the snake isn't that much of a loss to the poster. Why would I start lecturing them about what it means to the snake population? There is little chance he/she is going to kick himself after reading a post about the value of the snake's life. I'm pretty sure he knows that killing something means its life is gone. However, its likely he didn't know the snake was potentially very rare and worth a lot of money to certain people. So maybe after reading my post he would kick himself after finding out all the money he could have made. Not likely, but possible.

That is why I posted it the way I did. Not because I think money is more important than the needless killing.

Your point well taken. Thanks! I reckon we're in the same Think Tank, all said & done.

I was thinking the same thing. That was one hell of a morph. We should find out where that was and go herping, OH I mean camping there. LOL

You "HAD to kill it". It was "striking at the tent." Either of these statements insults common sense. Perhaps you should give up camping & take the kids to Goofy Golf. But watch out for the squirrels.

>>When we was camping. by my kids tent. so we had to kill it. we want to find out what kind of rattlesnake?

I tell you what ignorant people like this drive me up the wall they go into the snakes habitat and expect them to "run for the hills" when they get there and if they don't oh lets just knock it in the head with a rock it should have bowed to our superior intelligence and left while it had the chance ok buddy..... let somebody come in your living room and set up a tent and then when you come over and check to see what is going on their going to take a big rock and well you got the picture don’t sound to good when you look at it like that why don't you people just stay at home and play scrabble
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Tony Collins
The Croc Page
"You only get one shot at this life thing don't waste it"
http://hometown.aol.com/crocodilian/crocodilianconservation.html

Az Black rattlesnake, and an unusually patterned one at that...there's been enough hullabaloo about killing it, so I'll simply say that there were definitely safer options (for both you, your children and the snake). As far as the monetary value of this snake, it is an Az animal and Az prohibits commercialization of all native reptiles and amphibians. Therefore, this animal could not be bought, sold, traded, etc. Even if it were bred the offspring could not be commercialized either.

BTW I have a pair of cb Az Blacks with striping on their necks very similar to this animal, and yes it is unusual.

-AzAtrox