Reptile & Amphibian Forums

.....breeding 18 month old female snakes? we all know most of the arguments for and against, i'm just curious to know your opinion. my philosophy is that if they are not sexually mature you have nothing to worry about with breeding attempts because they simply won't breed. if they are sexually mature (regardless of age)the best thing you can do is breed it. interested to know your take. rusty

I think its natures or more accurately, these particular species design to reproduce at a very small size and age. Then continue to grow until they reproduce at a very much larger size and older age. And yes, we have seen this on our field studies.

I have been working with varanids(monitors) And they too are expert at this reproductive approach. A base formula is, most of our reptiles, from lizards to torts to snakes will reproduce at about 1/2 their average adult lenght.(tl)

I know the above from actual observations in both nature and captivity.

But the actual reason why is a little more difficult to guess or assume or predict, or address.

Common sense reason is simple, at a much smaller size, a female can consume much much less and still reproduce. So its a good reproductive stradgy to have this flexibility.

On the other end, Large females take much more energy to reproduce, but also carry much much more mass so they will not starve or are hindered reproductively during shortterm poor seasons. Small females could perish quickly during poor years/seasons.

On our field study, we did see a range in size of gravid females, but we did not see extremely small or extremely young females gravid until we had a very long term drought. We then found gravid females that were about one year old(judged by normal age indicators on rattlesnakes) That is, we found gravid female rattlesnakes that had only shed twice in their lives. A base, one rattle and a button. And one with a base and a button. These females were very very very small.

Of course in captivity, we see this routinely. Females from 12 to 18 months of age reproducing.

Its been my experience that these young females were far more successful then older females. And that includes various python species I have bred.

Others breeders have claimed problems with young females. These two bits of information clearly indicate its not about the design of the snake, but the support from the various keepers.

So I am in total agreement with you. And yes, a female must emitt pheromones to attract a male, she must develop mature ovum and store sperm, then fertilize the eggs. They cannot do this until they are physically ABLE to do this. What what we see here is, many keepers that think you should not allow young females to reproduce are often assoiating human cultural behaviors(not physical ability) to reptiles, and or, not properly supporting the needs of these females.

Lastly, nature has no guarantees, its most likely a benefit to recruit(reproduce) as fast as possible, as in most cases, there is a strong possibility they could perish before the next reproductive event.

Second lastly, I have not experienced any problems with young small females. That is, no more then I experienced with any sized female. Of course I have murdered all sizes thru igonrance or negleck.(not knowing or not providing the right support)Cheers

thanks for the reply. not having any experience as a field herpetologist, i only gave thought to breeding young females as part of a captive program. your feild experience lends perspectives i never considered. the writing is on the wall, we just have to read between the lines. rusty

Note that a 18 month old king, at least in captivity, can be 3 feet long.
I have a female 2006 MBK that is ~ 33 inches, a 16 month old Cal King (hatched end of Nov '06) that is ~ 29 inches long - and I bet they could be bigger had I fed them more than I did. I did not attempt to breed them.

I have a male '06 Okeetee that is 37 inches and a male '07 brooksi that is 26 inches long.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

And I have two female '06 S. GA getula that are over 46 inches. Both are pleasingly plump with eggs at the moment

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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I have bred small females. Matter of fact right now I have a very small female Golden Peanut Butter that was born last august that is gravid.

She bred with a Phantom.

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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!

n/p
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I decided my old sig was too big.

Thanks. That is just a Peanut Butter but it is from the 007 line of triple hets that produced the Phantom and Peabino's. So she is possible het for those as well. The BHB anery really colored everything up red in that line. That is why the Peabinos are so rich lemon yesllow and reds as well.

Phantom:

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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!

hey rainer, good to read you on the forum again,,,,,,,are you saying an '07(aug) is gravid now at 8months old? WTF!!!
,,,,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

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