What are the rules for selling specs over state lines? Are there federal regulations on them? I know they are CITES II but that only applies to international import/export, right? Why is it that I see so many dealers refusing to sell them over state lines?
-----
Reptile & Amphibian Forums
Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.
federal spectacled status?
Dewback
Apr 13, 2008 12:06 AM
Replies (8)
goini04
Apr 14, 2008 08:11 PM
Well, in reality...you're not supposed to be selling them from out of state. If my memory serves me correctly, without a bunch of paperwork, they can only be "donated" for educational purposes. You would need this documentation from whomever you obtain the animal from.
Chris
>>What are the rules for selling specs over state lines? Are there federal regulations on them? I know they are CITES II but that only applies to international import/export, right? Why is it that I see so many dealers refusing to sell them over state lines?
>>-----
>>
>>1.1 Indian Pythons, 1.1 Womas, 1.0 Sorong GTP, 1.0 Albino Green Burmese, 1.0 Australian Water Python, 1.0 Centralian Carpet Python, 1.0 Jungle Carpet Python, 1.1 Triple Het (Moonglow) Boas, 1.1 Peruvian Red-Tail Boas, 2.1 Hog Island Boas, 0.1 Pastel Salmon Boa, 0.1 50% poss Het for Alb. Boa, 0.0.1 North American Wood Turtle, 1.0 Hypo Alligator Snapper, 0.0.1 Concentric Diamondback Terrapin, 0.1.1 Leopard Tortoises, 0.0.1 Indian Star Tortoise,1, 0.0.1 Spectacled Caiman, 0.0.1 SpecXYacare Caiman, 1.0 Rhino Iguana
>>
-----
My Website
www.herpfanatic.com
Dewback
Apr 14, 2008 10:45 PM
That's interesting. Mine was a rescue that I got here in CO. However, I may have to move out of state soon (and try to get appropriate permits perhaps) and was wondering what the laws were on moving them over state lines. What about as personal property? I know I can legally move my federally endangered animals across state lines as personal property.
-----
Kachunga
Apr 17, 2008 09:44 AM
I have not tried to purchase any crocodilians over state lines so I'm no authority but I dont see how it is a problem. Each state has different regs on possession. In FL it is illegal to possess much less move one w/o the necessary permits. But if you are in a state which allows possession, I dont see why it would be a problem for a dealer to ship one to an individual, or for a person to move one to another state which allows possession.
Bryan OKC
Apr 18, 2008 07:59 AM
They were uplisted to Threatened status to facilitate the trade in farmed/legally harvested Yacare caiman skins. Yacare was downlisted from Endangered to Threatened at the same time. So interstate commerce is now prohibited, just like a species listed as endangered--unless you are selling skins.
You can read the explanation below.
Caiman Status
Dewback
Apr 18, 2008 09:21 PM
np
-----
Bill Moss
Apr 19, 2008 07:53 PM
You can't sell, trade, barter etc. across state lines without a permit - and that is virtually impossible for a private citizen to get. If you do, and you get caught, it's a Lacey violation, and congratulations, you just became a felon.
You may ship them, or drive them, as long as there is nothing exchanged that has any value.
So, in my non-legally binding opinion, and this is based on reading the law and directly speaking with the person in charge of enforcement at the Washington D.C. level, there is nothing wrong with a person moving to another state and taking the caiman with them. The burden of proof is on the Fed. But make no mistake, they can still make your life difficult. As the Fed told me, everyone needs to keep an ownership trail - receipts and the like.
Bill Moss
Apr 19, 2008 07:55 PM
The Fed doesn't care what the laws are in the individual states.
DawnOfTheDragon
May 09, 2008 05:19 PM
too, there's a lot of confusion on the part of breeders and dealers of crocodilians.
According to the rep (and I recorded the phone call) that I spoke with, there is NO federal regulation on the interstate commerce of these animals. I was told that there is a ban, due to unscrupulous activity on the part of some of the importers (using specs to bring in endangered/threatened species, which the spectacled is NOT) on their IMPORTATION AND EXPORTATION, which has nothing to do with interstate commerce.
Furthermore, I was told that the same breeders that are afraid to ship you an animal that is legal to ship across state lines (spectacled caiman), according to the USFW rep, are the same breeders that have no problem shipping hybridized crocs across state lines, thinking that they've found a legal loophole (for making money, of course) by hybridizing what is classified as an endangered animal with one that isn't (why would you breed a nile with a morelets anyway? These animals have no place in the natural world). The rep informed me that from a legal standpoint, they may as well be selling purebred offspring of the cites animal. She said that if there is any percentage of an endangered species in the animals genetics, it, and I quote, will be dealt with in the same way. Ironic, isn't it? You got all these beautiful baby specs produced in the private sector by folks that are afraid to sell them across state lines when it 'is' legal and these same breeders are more than happy to sell you a spec x yacare, nile x morelets, or some other science project and that 'is'nt' legal.
