Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So now for the real question. So i produce this weird looking hog island from wild caught parents in 03. this year I breed her to another pure hog and should have babies in about 50 days. she has no blacks they are all the caramel color of T ball pythons her tongue is that weird purple of T albino boas and her colors are just weird in person. normal browns are insane oranges and purples. so shes different ether some kind of recessive like hypo balls or T albino. some people that seen her say real nice hog, same say hypo but more are saying T . I'm think some kind of hypo . I don't believe in crossing boas it makes me feel dirty. but heres the problem if her looks prove out and it's genetic I'm back to where I started some say real nice hog same say hypo some say T so do i breed the gene in something else and prove that it is not a line breed trait but a simple receive gene if it's hypo or albino it will show in f2 cross. so do you do a cross or not?

The way I feel about it -- I don't see any difference between "pure" stock that is so inbred and aberrant that it doesn't look anything like normal. The purists say "it's pure". I say - so what. It's a morph. The genes have been altered and there's no way back.
"Pure" is -- Clean clear typical color and well defined typical pattern. "Pure" phenotype is typical with accents toward (but not excessive) key identifiable color and pattern traits. There are naturally occurring morphs, of course.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I wouldn't fully agree. Did you catch the pics of some of the babies post shed from my dad's Panamanian litter? Hard to say that there is a specific "look" to go by. Yet they are all pure, no matter how you look at it. Selective breeding for specific traits doesn't occur in nature either. I don't know, maybe I'm just not understanding your point. But pure locales have a wide array of natural variance.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

" Selective breeding for specific traits doesn't occur in nature either. "

Then what's evolution ?

Ernie Eison
Westwoodreptiles.com

You must be talking about Adaptation....there is No such thing as Evolution.
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I thought it was Creative Design??? lol
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I thought the typical morph for your local expressed a high degree of pattern variability and anomalies. The consistent colors support a specific trait for those colors.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Find the ugliest, darkest Hog Island you can of the opposite sex and breed them for a pure locale test.

Or, breed it to the ugliest, darkest Argentine you can find of the opposite sex to see if if resembles the T Pos Argies.

Do you have any pics of the possible T Pos?

"I don't believe in crossing boas it makes me feel dirty."

lmao!!! That was friggin hilarious! I don't care who you are, that's funny right there!

Ahem... On to the matter at hand. If it is a T positive and it's inherited in a simple recessive manner, this breeding will PROBABLY not prove anything (unless the male you bred her to is a het). I would say that breeding one of the male offspring back to the mother should yield the results you're looking for and will establish beyond a shadow of a doubt that the animals are T positive, or not. There will always be nay-sayers, but I think posting the pics of that next breeding (or this one if there are suspected T positives in the litter for whatever reason) on a public forum such as this one will allow everyone to take a look and make up their own minds. Just be careful that the nay-sayers aren't first in line to purchase one at a discount because they don't believe it's a T positive!

Best of luck proving it out!
jb

by the way, anyone looking for pics of this hog, here's a link to a post Micah made the other day with her in it...

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1500634,1500634
Check the follow up threads for additional pics!
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Jonathan Brady
*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

Is the pic below of the Hog in question(headshot in the foreground)? If so, the side of her head looks alot like a T Positive Amel; especially the band/stripe behind the eye.

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Jonathan Brady
*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

Its funny you bring this up.I've been saying this about my Hog Island Boas for 4 years now.They have no black on their tail rings, its just a light carmel color.Plus that light whits wash they have on their whole body.Its made me really curious.I've this statement to several people.Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I'd try getting the F2 with hogs and see how the babies turned out before mating it to a mainland BCI.

In my opnion, in boas, hypo and T-positive albino are interchangeable terms. Name the mutant gene (if it is one) something unique.

Paul Hollander

The Sunset or Super Hypo Hoggs for sale on the Classifieds just the other day (MY) show a definate T-Pos border on tail blotch/saddle borders, in the photos. Pretty sure that's what I saw.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Hi,
Personally speaking, the best direction to take here would be to breed it to an unrelated pure hog island boa. Then with the 2nd generation do three crosses.
1) F1 pair together.
2) Unusual hog to a one of its offspring
3) regular hog to one of its offspring.

From these crosses you will be able to tell several things. 1) You can prove that the unrealted "normal" hog had no influence over the trait by crossing it back to one of its offspring. 2) Breeding the F1 pair together with result in a 1:2:1 ratio of genotypes, of which 2 should be obvious to you (if recessive). these are the trait being selected for, and the normal wt appearance. Therefore, phenotypically you will get a 1:3 ratio (trait:wild type). 3) By breeding the unusual animal to one of its offspring (which if recessive should be het for the trait) you will get a 1:1 ratio of offspring.

I hope this helps. It does not require any outcrossing to different locals to prove.
Good luck, and please post pictures.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology
3309 Gardner Hall
Raleigh, NC 27695-7613

for being the ones who took the time out of the argument above and actually answer the question that was asked!
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www.GilbertBoas.com

The guy asked for advise and given my background I am more than happy to help. The rest of this post however, should be deleted.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology
3309 Gardner Hall
Raleigh, NC 27695-7613

As many will notice, a sizable chunk of this discussion is missing. At a poster's request, I removed his/her posts and anything posted under it automatically fell off. Most of these were not removed for TOS violations so please don't take it personally.

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Ginger Sanders
Staff Director
Email PHGinger

Very kind of you to explain this,its a rarity for KS to fill in the blanks on things like this.

Appreciate it !

>>As many will notice, a sizable chunk of this discussion is missing. At a poster's request, I removed his/her posts and anything posted under it automatically fell off. Most of these were not removed for TOS violations so please don't take it personally.
>>
>>
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>>Ginger Sanders
>>Staff Director
>>Email PHGinger
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TnK

"""Very kind of you to explain this,its a rarity for KS to fill in the blanks on things like this. """

That is probably because our TOS and our Privacy policies prohibit discussion of TOS violations in public or with anyone but the violator. This did not involve a TOS violation.
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Ginger Sanders
Staff Director
Email PHGinger