Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've seen several references to the IMG gene, but have never actually read what it is or what that stands for. Help please.

Eddie

Increased (or Increasing) Melanin Gene. It means the melanin - black pigment - becomes more visible as the snake ages. Usually it is black dots in the brown that increase as time goes on, giving it a speckled appearance. Check out Ralph Davis' site for pics.

I had this girl a while back...sold her about 3 years ago though. SHe is IMG! As she grew the black would grow and get more intense. It was in almost every saddle

mandk, what is the difference between the image you have posted and what some others call shatter pattern, or marbled? looks the same to me with the smudgy black on the sides - i'm not sure if shateer/marbled are preety much born that way or those smudges increase with age like img snakes....

I bred her and none of the siblings had any trace of the black pigmentation going on so i kept all siblings and bred a son back to mom, but nothing. I sold her, but bred 2 of her siblings together but also nothing. Must have been just a fluke with her. But as she grew so did the black..it was a very dark black and shiny. I sold her to Tony Hurt @ Snake Evolutions but never heard if she produced anything resembling her or not! That was over 3-4 years ago...really didn't know what to call her back then....4 years in the BP market, a lot changes!...I would love to see a recent pic of her

Increased Meline Gene. We have one, a male, he is lacking brown and has really deep deep black pigment. Has golden markings trimmed in white. Really nice looking snakes. Mine will be breedable next season and I plan on doing something with him. I am a show me kinda guy, they all say IMG's are not genetic but I will still try. Just like the Jaguar. Here is a pic of mine, not too good though.

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Here's a couple more "better" pics of my IMG. One beside a normal.

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That's not an IMG...
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"We call them dumb animals, and so they are, for they cannot tell us how they feel, but they do not suffer less because they have no words."
- Anna Sewell (1820-1878)

I have a clutch due from this pair.

The weird thing about what most people are calling "IMG's" actually seem to lighten in color which as someone else stated in a previous post about this subject would be decreasing melanine gene not increasing. I agree with this and dont think IMG is an accurate term. On Ralph Davis website he calls them IMG/Arctic. I bred this male with a normal female and produced these 6 "normals". I will breed the females back to dad and see whats up. Hopefully some of these will prove out.

Here is one I purchased that was reported as an import. She has been out on breeding loans for years and hasn't produced yet. I haven't heard what her chances are this year but she was a picky eater through the fall so probably not so good. Many have had normal change over night to similar looking animals and one theory is that it could have to do with cage conditions and skin irritation. I knew about that when I paid a pretty penny for her but I was hoping her clear shed meant she was more likely to be genetic. She became darker and picked up color in her shed shortly after I got her.

Here is the last photo I have after she had grown quite a bit and gotten progressively darker and started to pick up color in her shed and more cream color in her background. She still looks the same years later.

And here is when she first shed for me (clear) at about half that size of the last picture.

This snake was sold to me as an IMG. It is still a very young snake and has a lot of simularities to "Dirty Joe's" development on RDR's website. He is getting darker with each shed and is starting to get the speckling in his cream colored pattern. We'll see how he turns out. If he ends up being just a normal he is definately unlike any normal I have seen. Looks 10X better in person than in pics.
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A true IMG will become darker a little at a time, after every shed there is a increase of Melanin and eventually the snake will be almost black with traces of there pattern showing . This has been a big topic from time to time and a lot of light snakes with black in them being clamed as IMG’s but not being I have some IMG pics in my archives and will tri to find them and will post for you . David

Truth is generally the best vindication against slander.
Abraham Lincoln.

here are the ones I found and some info , The exact genetics of the IMG (increased melanin gene) ball is still unknown. They are generally a high contrast ball as babies that develop more and more dark pigment as they grow. The increase of black speckling in the cream pattern gives the snake a "dirty" appearance. We will hopefully know more about this morph in the near future.

the last 2. David

"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

n/p

Here is a img we had, he shed out from a normal to this then got darker after each following shed.

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J&J REPTILES
www.jnjreptiles.com
sales@jnjreptiles.com
(207)479-6658

That's not an IMG thats a snake with an l-tyrosine deficiency.

IMGs do not "loose color" they gain pigment.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Sorry but that is not a IMG Ball , and I think I have told you this before and I know I have seen that same pic before but that snake is in a color louse faze induced by a lack of trace minerals , L-Tyrosine and Copper to be exact!!!! David

"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

Actually that animal is a img.
There is a large breeder in Florida that proved his line of img's and they have all done the same color change. If it was from lack of vitamins or minerals, it would not be a 1 time change, and the color would not be left with the brown on the head with the stripe like it was. All the animals from the line he has have done the same thing. He has 80 offspring from the breeding he is holding back for future breeding's of the project.

Maybe he will give the line a different name, but it is not from lack of vitamins or minerals.
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J&J REPTILES
www.jnjreptiles.com
sales@jnjreptiles.com
(207)479-6658

So are you saying that your animal is from his proven line (which isn't IMG) or are you saying that you are passing off your animal as such because it happens to look like that?
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Yes I think that is what he is saying , it mite be genetic but it sure ant IMG . David

"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt’s

It is the same type of animal, but not related to his proven line. His line does the same thing as this one did and there has been others that shed out the same way. We are not calling it genetic, or "trying to pass it off as such. He calls his line IMG. I could really care less what people call it, the animal was traded out to a person who had a female just like him who knew he was 99.99% not genetic but wanted a fun project. We were told by a big breeder he was a img... So my mistake...

We do have a traditional img male here, and it is easy to see why people would not consider them the same gene as they look completely different, but both types do get progressively darker with each shed, so hence the name.

Sorry for the confusion.
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J&J REPTILES
www.jnjreptiles.com
sales@jnjreptiles.com
(207)479-6658

I understand what you are saying and I can sympathize with you as you are going on what some one has told you , But that is not a IMG!!!! if it is genetic and you would have to breed and prove it out , but I bet if I was to give it my supplement for 4 months it would start to regain its color. But that’s my opinion as I have had them do exactly the same thing . David

"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

Supplement??

As I said, he shed again and was normal color, no supplements or anything. Looked normal, shed - was silver, shed again- was normal, after that he got darker and darker each shed.
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J&J REPTILES
www.jnjreptiles.com
sales@jnjreptiles.com
(207)479-6658

Now those look like IMG's! The thing i wonder is if these lighter snakes are changing due to cage conditions why dont they change back. Mine changed suddenly also. It was actually in the middle of the shed from normal to the color he is now when he was sold to me. His cage conditions are great now and i have had him for 2 years now. Thanks for the pics David.

same thing I have had This same thing happen to me before , it was about 15 years ago and took me years to pinpoint what the cause was but since then I have been giving vitamins every 4th feeding and haven’t had another case of it . Hope this helps David

"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

If you have a large collection of snakes and this happens to just one of them, and they all eat the very same thing, how can one go lacking when others don't?
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I have seen a lot of stress or nutrient related color changes - even those from escaped animals that were known to have been feeding on field mice or wild rodents. To me at least there is an obvious difference in their coloring and how they change back (the l-tyrosine deficient animals color back up grainy).

Based solely on my observations of this type of thing I would almost venture to guess within some of these (l-tyrosine deficient animals) there is something within the snake itself that isn't processing these nutrients correctly. Of course until someone does a thorough study on them - it's all just speculation based on observations.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Ha Tosha ! To my knowledge wild rodents in the states are drastically different than those of Africa as for as there internal mineral make up . And stress can cause color change but not long term , and the vet I used 10-15 years ago new a lot about this and it had been studied at the zoo he was working for or had worked for . But yes there are a lot of things that can short term color changes . but this is the only long term explanation for this type of color malfunction . Thanks David

Truth is generally the best vindication against slander
Abraham Lincoln.

I asked that same thing of a vet I new and he said that they are just like us some need more of some things then others . So I asked then will it hurt the ones that are not deficient ? He said no they will expel exec minerals in there urates just like in the wild . David

that snake is in a color louse faze induced by a lack of trace minerals , L-Tyrosine and Copper to be exact!!!!same thing I have had This same thing happen to me before , it was about 15 years ago and took me years to pinpoint what the cause was but since then I have been giving vitamins every 4th feeding and haven’t had another case of it . Hope this helps David

ps sorry for Problem I don’t know what happened the first time

YEAAAAAAA

finally a pic with an IMG type snake in it......

the ones in this post are normals.....lots of normals that were sold to people for more money than they were worth probably.....

this looks like an actual increase in the tipping or overall black color of the snake.....yeaaa......

.....the one pic below has been called IMG but it is not......it is odd......more like IAT ......increasing axanthic tendancies......I had one fade then went back to normal color for the next few years now......odd......

........granite,shatter,IMG, and alot of other make believe stuff is sold too ,too often in the trade......

check what you buy......

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jyohe...exactly which snake in the post are saying is an IMG?
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dsreptile ....third pic is the best.......

yep....

........sorry slightly overweight male human.........politically correct???.....
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I think alot of people confuse the IMG trait (phenomena?) with natural darkening of pigmentation most ball pythons experience as they grow older. I don't have a huge collection of ball pythons but nearly every normal I have so far, start as quite bright babies, then darken significantly once they are 2 years old. My oldest female, coming on to 5 years this summer, was quite bright as a baby but has grown darker after she was around 2-3 years.

To compare, an early picture of her, taken July '05

The next two pictures, taken today.

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PHLdyPayne

There is a big difference getting darker and blacking over.
David

"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I got this female last year as a CH import baby. After about her third shed I noticed she was getting darker then the other 5 I bought at the same time. Is she an IMG? I don't know, but at less then a year old she is pretty dark.

Jeff

The group of six just after I got them home. She is in the middle bottom.

P.S. All but 1 of the 6 females are over 800 grams. I would not hesitate to buy CH again.

It is entirely possible , the next year will tell the tale . But to me at this point I’d have to say 95% yes , it look like a juvenile IMG , it looks like all the jive’s I have seen . David

Truth is generally the best vindication against slander
Abraham Lincoln

Thanks David. Compared to some of the first photos posted I agree that yeah she a probable IMG. But compared to ones you posted I say "hum, I'm not sure". I guess time will be the only true test. But I will tell you that her change has been a steady gradual darkening over the last 10 months with no periods of appearing to be lighter in color. Only darker.

Jeff