Reptile & Amphibian Forums

On reptileuv.com, it says with Megaray bulbs, since they are stimulating D3 synthesis, that D3 supplementation is not needed. In fact it says the reptiles should be getting enough calcium from the diet that calcum supplementation is really not needed, or at least there is a diminished need. This I do not believe, as avalable foods will often have less calcium than they should due to growing practices,etc, and probably in turn have an out of whack Calh ratio. But how do you feel about not providing D3 in the diet? Is this feasible? Will there be a harmful excess if used/ a harmful lack of D3 if not? What are you Megaray users doing?

I supplement sparingly with Miner-all (outdoor style) which has no D3 to be sure calcium and other mineral needs are met in case the diet I feed is lacking somewhere. Vitamin D3 is toxic if overdosed, so I prefer to let the animals regulate their UVB exposure rather than attempt to guess at oral D3 dosing. I use Mega Ray and I also have a UVB meter, so I know what levels of UVB each lamp is putting out and can replace them as needed.
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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.1 Saharan Uros (Joe and Arthur)
3.0 Mali Uros (Spike, Turtle, and Tank)
1.1 Ornate Uros (Scuttlebutt and Shazzbot)
0.1 Collared Lizard (Rorschach)
2.0 Green Anoles (Bowser and Sprocket)
1.1 Chubby Housecats (Roscolux and Jenny)

I use megarays on all of my animals, and you can absolutely trust what Bob Mac says. He has been rehabbing animals with MBD for years, has advised me for several, and his advice is always right on. I use cal. with D3 in new rescues that I know have been denied adequate UVB, whether that is because they have had none or had just florescent, and in lizards with obvious MBD. Then, after about a month of being under the megaray, I switch to cal without D3, and suppliment about once to three times a week. My lizards are all the epitomy of health and I have turned several MBD lizards around under Bob's advice.
http://rosebudshouse.webs.com/

I have always used lamps and not really supplemented D3, if you are using fluroscents you can give a little bit of d3 once a week or so. I usually give my animals Mazuri Tortoise chow or Iguana chow, and sometimes uromastyx dust. All of those food items contain D3. Most sources state that Iguanas need 50-100 IUs of D3 per kg a week to prevent MBD (Kohler, Wilms, and I believe Mader)50 for adults and 100 for juvies. For a 1 pound adult animal this would translate into something like 25 IU's of D3. Thats less than 3 mazuri tortoise chow pieces a week. Most grocery store greens are way lacking in Calcium, so calcium supplementation is CRUCIAL (in my opinion anyway). Collards have .145g of Ca per 100 grams= .15% calcium not near enough calcium in my opinion. Ca for people I belive should be around 1% of total diet, for reptiles it is likely higher. I like to add 2 grams Ca for every 100 grams of food, I usually make it up in batches so it is not too hard to do at that time. It is almost impossible to overdose calcium alone, it is possible to overdose D3 and D3 overdosed with excess calcium is even worse (mineralization of the soft tissues).

Well, yes it is possible to overdose both. Too much calcium leads to kidney stones and other very serious health conditions, as does too much D3.

I think the question was about the production of D3 when you specifically use a Megaray UVB or other comparable Mercury Vapor UVB source. MVBs simulate the sun so well that supplimenting with D3 becomes unnecessary as they can produce enough just by being under the MVB. Bob has confirmed this with blood tests I think. As for calcium, I would never completely cut out suppliments. As I said, mine all get either liquid or dust 2-3 times a week as I think about it, but I do not suppliment D3.

Now D3 suppliment is absolutely necessary when you use any florescent UVB source. They are adequate with more supplimentation, but not nearly as effective as the MVBs

I do not know of any real dangers from too much calcium- at least not in levels that one would be supplementing. Kidney stones are not caused by too much calcium. I have kept lizards for years with the floroscent bulbs only- with little or NO D3 suplementation and they have done fine- the point I was trying to make is that animals need very very little D3. The benefits of high powered bulbs are more than just D3.

From Melissa Kaplan:
"Excessive amounts of calcium, previously uncommon in iguanas, may become an increasing problem as owners, scared of MBD, overcompensate and give too much calcium. Hypercalcemia may also occur in conjunction with protein/hydration induced kidney failure, can cause bone defects, cardiac changes, hyperthyroidism, shock, renal hypertension and failure and death."

She is discussing iguanas here, but I have read similar statements about reptiles in general. Here is her link:
http://www.anapsid.org/vitamin.html

Too much D3 can cause multiple organs to fail.

It is not a good idea to over suppliment with anything, including calcium, and especially D3.

Florescent UVB bulbs, excluding the Reptiglo 10 and the coils and compacts, are adequate. However, not many people would argue that they are as good as MVBs. They do not promote the production of D3 the way MVBs do.

The problem is like I stated earlier- too much D3 and too much calcium... Calcium alone in reasoable amounts will pass through the GI tract, it needs the extra D3 to be absorbed. For hypercalcemia to occur you need excess calcium AND excess D3. It MAY be possible to overdose on calcuim alone (I don't know), just not likely...you would have to offer a whole lot of extra calcium. As I stated earlier most common fed greens have way too little calcium to meet the needs of reptiles. Diet should have around 1.5% Calcium. Collards have somewhere around .5% You would have to add something like 2 teaspoons to 100 grams of greens to get the needed amount of calcium in the diet. Check my math- I could be wrong as I am quoting this from memory, but if I am off it is not by much.