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Question about TP&W permits etc..

lbenton Apr 16, 2008 06:39 PM

Now I now that in Deltona FL a resident was able to prove that state issued permits to keep otherwise prohibited animals superseded any local city or county ordinances. In effect making them null and void as long as you get your papers.

Now what I have to wonder is if such a thing is due to the specific wording of the laws in FL, or would that be generally true, for example here in TX.

If you had a permit to keep a certain number of indigenous animals or exotic venomous or the listed large boids in TX, and the state (TP&W) list with your name and inventory was reviewed by your local LE. Could they act? Would the state issued permit overrule or override the local ordinances? What are the liabilities and concerns now? After all this list or permit holders will be public information…

I just want to know how this would pan out, because sooner or later it will happen.

Lance
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

Replies (12)

Chris_McMartin Apr 16, 2008 08:34 PM

Would the state issued permit overrule or override the local ordinances?

I'm interested in this whole shibang too. I don't understand the FL case--it seems like local laws could legitimately be MORE restrictive than state/national, but not LESS restrictive (which is also why I don't understand how marijuana can be illegal at the Federal level but permissible in CA).
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

TexasReptiles Apr 16, 2008 09:27 PM

It's rather simple, State law, such in Florida, supersedes local county, city laws/ordinances, as I understand it.

Randal

keown Apr 16, 2008 09:43 PM

I can not put my finger on it at the moment...I have read so much of this stuff from TP&W that it is all beginning to run together. In some of their stuff I am certain that I have read the language that "permit holders mut also be in compliance with all local laws and ordinances" or something to that effect.

If I come across it again, I will post more info.
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Gerald Keown
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
www.southwesternherp.com

TimCole Apr 16, 2008 11:03 PM

According to Texas Health Department Animal codes, cities and counties may be more strict than state but not less than. Don't know if this applies to this scenario. I was wondering about this too.
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

Scott_McDonald Apr 21, 2008 08:47 AM

Local ordinance stringency is not the issue. Rather, the issue is whether local ordinance can "Ban" an activity deemed as legal by Texas Statute.

Consider a driver's license for a moment. While a local ordinance can regulate how you drive, the ordinance cannot suspend your license. That is at the discretion of the state.

Another-30TAC285 as relating to On-Site Sewerage Facilities regulation: While local regulations can be more strict than TCEQ, where an OSSF is the only option for blackwater waste disposal, utilizing an OSSF can not be banned by local ordinance.

Also: When the City of Richardson's breed-specific ban(1990) was found to circumvent Texas Penal Code, the Texas Legislature closed the loophole inside TAC regarding breed-specific bans the following years(1991 or 1992, I can't remember).

Another: Local governments had their asses handed to them repeatedly over attempted widespread banning of handgun possesion by CHL holders. It is a state permit, so local government can only regulate their employees and their buildings-period.

It is quite clear in OAG opinions, supreme court cases, and the Texas Constitution: Local government cannot encroach upon activities allowed by Texas Statute.

With regard to this situation, ALL the reptiles listed as "ownership with permit allowed" are exactly that...Permitted. Those listed animals, and only those-CANNOT BE BANNED by local government.

Where local government would have citizenry believe they can be as strict as they like, this is simply not the case.

Unfortunately, since local governments are notoriously stubborn, it will have to be tested in the court system. IMHO, a case such as this will go to the supreme court, and will quite possibly have an OAG opinion as well.

Chris_McMartin Apr 17, 2008 06:02 AM

>>It's rather simple, State law, such in Florida, supersedes local county, city laws/ordinances, as I understand it.

...but TimCole says

According to Texas Health Department Animal codes, cities and counties may be more strict than state but not less than. Don't know if this applies to this scenario. I was wondering about this too.

This, to me, seems more logical; which is why I can't understand why FL seems to be "backwards."
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

TexasReptiles Apr 17, 2008 07:05 AM

This is the quote from the Deltona, Florida article, found on page 2 of the venomous forum.

"The state constitution empowers the wildlife commission to regulate wildlife and local governments cannot infringe on that power."

So, go figure.

Randal

Scott_McDonald Apr 21, 2008 07:15 AM

It is called PREEMPTION, and I have emailed roughly 24 city/county officials for a clarification. To date, I have had 24 officials ignore my request.

I have spoken with an attorney, and it currently seems-
Local Ordinances can be MORE STRICT if there is no conflict with TEXAS STATUTE.

HOWEVER, AS WRITTEN THERE IS A CONFLICT with local ordinances and state law with regard to those animals listed on the new Texas Statute.

Let me explain:
Local governments across Texas routinely use Vernon's Statutes to label certain reptiles as, "Dangerous Wild Animals."

Below, are some supportive rulings used by local governments when basing reptile regulation to Vernon's Statutes:

1.) When there is no conflict between a state law and a city ordinance, the ordinance is not void.-TX Supreme Court ruling of City of Richardson vs. Responsible Dog Owners (1990).

2.) Local regulation, ancillary to and in harmony with the state legislation, is acceptable.-Gordon vs. State (1988).

Also, according to the Texas Constitution:

Local government looks to statute for limitations of power, and not authorization of power.

To begin, Vernon's Statutes provides a short list of animals deemed “dangerously wild,” and reptiles do not make this list; However, the statute does not state that the list is absolute. Thus, animals could be added but not removed from the list, upon ordinance adoption by local regulators.

Here is the actual definition of Dangerous Wild Animal, from Vernon's Texas Statutes, Title 10; Health and Safety of Animals, Chapter 822.101-Regulation of Dangerous Wild Animals list:

"Dangerous wild animal" means:
lion;
tiger;
ocelot;
cougar;
leopard;
cheetah;
jaguar;
bobcat;
lynx;
serval;
caracal;
hyena;
bear;
coyote;
jackal;
baboon;
chimpanzee;
orangutan;
a gorilla;
or any hybrid of an animal listed in this subdivision.

Utilizing the above Texas Supreme Court rulings, the Texas Constitution, and the list as a guideline, many local governments across the state expanded the Dangerous Wild Animal lists, to include certain reptiles.

Enter HB12

Prior to HB12, local governments were left with the ability to determine the regulatory placement, and as a result-how best to address reptile ownership.

HB12 was adopted by the Texas Legislature in 2007. Part of HB12 specifically addressed the permitting of certain reptiles:

Texas Parks and Wildlife Code; Title V. Wildlife and Plant Conservation: Special Licenses and Permits-
§ 43.851. PERMIT.
(a) The commission by rule shall establish permits, that allow permit holders to possess or transport in this state a live non-indigenous:
venomous snake; or
constrictor that is one of the following:
African rock python, Python sebae;
Asiatic rock python, Python molurus;
Green Anaconda, Eunectes murinus;
reticulated python, Python reticulatus; or
southern African python, Python natalensis.

HB12 clarified the State of Texas' position concerning certain reptiles, and placed regulation in the, Texas Parks and Wildlife Code. Since legislators did not deem these reptiles as fitting the expressed or implied definition of “dangerously wild,” they were not added to the existing Vernon’s Dangerous Wild Animals Statute.

As a result of Vernon's Statutes not addressing certain reptiles, a conflict is promulgated between the Texas Parks and Wildlife Code and many local ordinances with regard to certain reptiles. Even if Vernon's Statutes implied that any animal can be regulated as dangerously wild:

"A statute does not, of course, abrogate or affect an earlier law where there is no conflict between the two, But an act that is later in point of time controls, repeals or supersedes an earlier act, in so far as the two are inconsistent and irreconcilable and cannot both stand at the same time" . . .39 Tex.Jur. 139, Statutes § 74.

The Texas Legislature:

1.) Initiated a licensure program for certain animals under the Texas Parks and Wildlife Code; Title V. Wildlife and Plant Conservation: Special Licenses and Permits, Chapter 43.851, while simultaneously;

2.) Narrowing how local governments view certain animals as “dangerously wild” under Vernon's Statutes, Title 10; Health and Safety of Animals, Chapter 822.101.-Regulation of Dangerous Wild Animals.

Thus, resulting regulation of certain reptiles by TP&WD appears to preempt local ordinances statewide.

This preemption still applies even though Texas Administrative Code, Rule §55.652 (b) appears to be a possible attempt at letting existing local ordinances stand with regard to certain reptiles:
A permit issued under this subchapter does not relieve any person of the responsibility of complying with any federal, state, or local law or ordinance regulating the possession and transportation of controlled exotic snakes.

BY TEXAS LEGISLATIVE LAW: Local Ordinances CAN BE MORE STRICT, BUT CANNOT FORBID OWNERSHIP of these animals.

As a result, local ordinances can tighten the ownership requirements, but they cannot legally forbid ownership.

Remember, regulations must be statutorily based. As such:
1.) A city is preempted from regulating in a field if the city's regulation is expressly prohibited, if the legislature intended state law to exclusively occupy that field, or if the city regulation conflicts with state law, EVEN IF STATE LAW IS NOT INTENDED TO OCCUPY THAT FIELD. -Jim Mattox OAG Opinion # JM-619

2.) Even if the legislature has not preempted home-rule cities from adopting regulations in a particular field, however, a home-rule city may not enforce an ordinance inconsistent with state law. –Dan Morales OAG Opinion # DM-221

3.) What the statute allows, a city may not by ordinance forbid. See: City of Brookside Village vs. Comeau, 633 S.W.2d 790, 796 (Tex. 1982)

As a result, local governments can add regulations ancillary to possession, they can not currently ban certain reptile ownership of the types listed in the statute.

Again, it is my understanding that had the Texas Legislature wished to forbid the ownership of the reptiles listed above, it merely would have had to mirror local ordinances by adding reptile legislation to Vernon's Statutes, Chapter 822.101; However, this option was not taken.

Since Vernon's Chapter 822.101, is not in conflict with new TP&W Code 43.851, the conflict lies squarely between local reptile regulation and TP&WD Code. The conflict is the express forbidding of certain reptiles. Where these two regulations conflict, state law does appear to supersede local ordinances.

TexasReptiles Apr 21, 2008 08:11 AM

Great Post Scott!

Randal Berry

keown Apr 21, 2008 01:45 PM

Scott,

Thanks for sorting all of that out for us.
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Gerald Keown
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
www.southwesternherp.com

Chameleoncounter Apr 24, 2008 01:10 PM

Being a Non-game Dealer Permit holder for 6 yrs I have come across this issue already.....Even thou I can buy and sell Venomous snakes(Indigenous) I can't keep them or sell them in the city limits?....This new permit will have the same rules
apply. Although I happened to know our city revamped the animal ordinances to allow for a application to possess a dangerous animal in the city limits????

Scott_McDonald Apr 25, 2008 07:40 AM

You are correct. Since indigenous venemous reptiles aren't addressed in this statute, they do not fall under the Exotic Controlled Snake statute.

Texas Government Code is not constructed in a restrictive manner; Rather, it is built on a liberal framework. In other words, the Texas Constitution does not proscribe what can/can't be regulated, UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED in statute.

If Texas Statutes do not address a regulatory field, it can normally be assumed a local government can step-in, providing for regulation.

Following this logic, and as silly as it may sound, for indigenous venemous ownership queries, the TP&WD White/Black list and local ordinance(s) must be followed.

There are however, some untypical instances where Texas Statutes do NOT address an issue-AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT STILL CANNOT REGULATE BECAUSE OF THE ABSENCE.

These types of situations aren't typical in Texas Statutes; However, an example of restrictive control that specifically leashes local government:
The Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission, has complete control of what can be regulated at the local level. If there is not:
1. a related statute, local government cannot pass an ordinance.
2. the statute must also give local ordinance power to add ancillary ordinances.

Following this scenario, a local ordinance cannot be passed banning the sale of beer in glass containers, unless the beer bottle is ONLY PART OF AN OVERALL ban of all glass beverage (alcoholic and non-alcoholic) containers.

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