Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey everyone.

My blood python just passed a HUGE quantity of hard urates two days ago, and now her vent won't entirely close. There's a bit of a pink tissue "lip" just behind the vent scales that's still exposed, and her vent is slightly open. She isn't bleeding or seemingly stressed at all (and, she didn't bleed when passing the urates). Should I soak her each day to help keep this tissue clean? Should I apply some sort of antibiotic to the tissue to help prevent infection? I wouldn't say this seems like a prolapse, but more like basically a swelling. I'm hoping it will just shrink down on its own and close back up.

So far, she hasn't passed the stools yet, but the urates were a big event, for sure.

Any advice out there, based on your snakes' experiences, would be greatly appreciated!

Hey,

I am not an expert but have just had a recent experience very similar to yours with my 06 female Blood. She does not do a b/m until she sheds, even if two months pass. As I was soaking her in warm (90f degree) she released her excrement¡¦s. When she passed her fecal matter it caused her "vent" to stay partially open with some pink (soft tissue) looking exposed and irritated. I made sure she was clean around that area with some warm water and bathed her again a few moments later to sooth the area. Within two days or so she was back to "normal" in that area. Since your blood did not do her b/m yet I would soak her in some warm water with supervision until she passes her waste. It seems that she is ready to release but is constipated or irritated in that area and may need your assistants. The warm bath seems to do the trick.

I personally would not put anything on the area, just keep her conditions ideal with humidity and everything else.

Please keep the board updated as I am interested to hear how she is doing. If it gets worse I would take her to the vet ASAP as you don¡¦t want anything to happen to your blood ƒº

Hope this was helpful!

Eric

Again, just my two cents

Eric,

Thanks for your input. She passed stools last night, and her vent closed back up just fine. Maybe it was just the calm before the storm...but nice to know she seems to be back to her old self again.

Appreciate your help. Good luck with your blood, too.

I am very happy to hear that your blood is doing ok! Observation is very important with owning any type of animal as many things can go wrong.

Thank you,

Eric

Dudes. None of that stuff is normal.

First of all...prolapses can be mild and they can be intermittent. It is absolutely something you should keep an eye on. If it doesn't happen again count yourself lucky. If it does, keep her on damp paper towel (clean and won't stick to it) and apply some vaseline or antibiotic ointment. If it stays out for more than a few hours you should see a vet.

And your python should not poop every two months.

Thanks but, with all due respect, do you have a blood? It's not uncommon for blood pythons to wait 4 to 6 months before defecating. They'e not like other pythons that way. It can be unnerving to wait it out, but that's how most bloods are.

I wish mine went every two months!

Hey,

Without getting defensive I would encourage everyone who responds on these threads to think long and hard before they give advice. I have owned snakes for 15+ years and have housed Bloods for many of those years.

Every Blood I have ever come in contact with have defecated on a very limited basis. Even with ideal humidity and ideal conditions they will not do a b/m very often.

When I write a response it is not just writing a response, everything I put on Kingsnake is from real life experiences, not just what I read in a book. These are the facts!

Thank you,

Eric

Keep up the great job with your blood

I had a collection of 12 adult animals and a number of juvies and hatchlings. All deficated within 3-4 days of feeding. None of these animals would touch water over 12 hours old. I've posted this on the Blood forum many times, only to have it shrugged off by the people having this problem. The problem is hydration, point blank. It is not normal for any reptile to prolapse, so if they do, it's all on the keeper. 9 times out of 10, prolapse is caused by de-hydration. These animals, along with most other Indo Pythons lose water ( dehydrate ) very easily. So here's a simple solution; Change water daily, and provide a moist hide box that has 100% humidity and they will function properly. Ambient humidity should be around 50-60%. Here's a litmus test for y'all. If you put your animal in a tub of water and it was properly hydrated, it wouldn't drink. If you see those muscles behind the head move more than 2 or 3 times, your not providing the animal the means to keep itself hydrated.

To me this issue also sounds like mentioned above de-hydration and that your animal/s were passing fecal stones?

Having started my exotic herp passion with Blood Pythons over 20 years ago....I'd say the above statement is 100% correct.

EXERCISE is another key element missed by Blood keepers.

In the wild....they are free to move about on their own.....not so in a cage. And most of the time it's a cage that is too small.

Every time I take a snake in the yard for some exercise....they will defecate....REGARDLESS of species.
Even if they have defecated the day before.

Your problem is simply not enough moisture and not enough exercise.
Cheers.
D.

I def. can not argue with animals that become constipated due to dehydration. Simply put, my larger bloods (the ones I were referencing) are being house in a 6' x 3' x 2' enclosure from BoaMaster. I highly doubt that exercise or lack of space/humidity is an issue. The humidity is more than adequate with two water bowls large enough for bathing and a moist box measuring 2' x 2' with moist Cypress Mulch and nearly 90%+ humidity. If you are not familiar with the BoaMaster cages they hold a tremendous amount of humidity and heat compared to other cages.

From what was explained from the initial post, it seemed like there was some irritation but not a prolapse. It could have been the first sign of a prolapse but pictures would only tell.

I have house and bred many species of Pythons, Boas and colubrids and have found that Bloods specifically tend not to do a full b/m until shedding time. This is not text book as they on occasion pass some feces in between shedding but nothing significant/substantial that would indicate a full b/m. All my other reptiles I house are much different, defecating nearly every week or a few days after a meal.

With that being said, if my Bloods were dehydrated wouldn't they have a hard time shedding? Considering all my animals shed in one full piece I am feeling that the conditions that I have provided are nothing but ideal yet my above statement as far as regularity stands true.

Again like I said before this is just my two cents...I am not expert, never claimed to be but do have experience.

Research through observation is key!

Thank you,

Eric

An animal can absolutely be dehydrated and shed fine.

We as keepers like to bring "optimal conditions" into the equation but... how do you know their conditions are "optimal"?

Did the snake tell you?

Yes, we can observe and make observations based on what we see the snake doing.

I maintained a colony of bloods for many years.
I would "walk" them 2 or 3 times outside every week for 30 to 45 minutes.
In doing this....they would defecate each time they were out (with-in 15 minutes).

No animal...(you included) like to have stale feces in their colon. LoL!

I'm not saying it's necessary for a healthy python but... it does help with the above mentioned problem.

The proof is in the pudding....if the animal passed very hard urates and very hard/large stool.....as was said....
The snake is dehydrated.....or it doesn't have enough water in it's system to defecate... without having a concerning post written.

Also, Exercise is VERY important for these animals.
Moving about in the wild stimulates defecation..... Moving the muscles in a different way.... than they are used in a cage on news paper.
You can see the difference in movement outside on grass.

Take any of your snakes outside right now....and with-in 15 minutes....they will crap or perform some sort of excrement.

They will not do this as readily if they are in their cage all day.

This has been proven to me time and time again and why I now take my snakes outside for exercise.
Plus....it keeps cage cleaning down to a minimum. Haha.
And... it certainly doesn't hurt the animal.
Cheers.
D.

Wow, some people like to think they know all.
I keep bloods and have chatted with well known successful breeders. First, bloods definitely do not defecate 3-4 days after eating (unless very young), or by simply taking outside for some "Exercise" for 15 mins. With bloods, it seems safe to say that the bigger they get, the less frequently they poop. We keep the humidity right and have a big water bowl with fresh water available at all times. I have taken my snakes out a few times for some photos and I was out there for at least 30 mins and they did not poop. If you all really want to know, ask the known experts who are successful breeders in the blood python forum. Not someone who pretends to be a know-it-all with no legit back up.
Nick

Yea, I got no experience...haha.

Dude, I bred blood for several consecutive years (6) ....with 4 or 5 clutches each year.
Anytime I had them in the yard...they would crap. Might not be your experience..... but it was mine.

While they're are variables to any python....such as frequency of feeding, etc....
MOST will poop with-in minutes of getting some "crawl around" time.
Exercise is GOOD for these animals

This is simple fact.

Another fact is... that this guy had a question about a blood with it's ass hanging out....
Said it had HUGH urates and very hard stool.

THIS IS A SIGN OF DEHYDRATION. This is fact. This isn't a "guessing game" with what has happened.

If your snake is pushing so hard to get defecation out... that it's digestive tissue is inflamed.......
What do you think the problem is?

D.

And by "crawl around time" I don't mean...

" I have taken my snakes out a few times for some photos"

I mean exercise... NOT trying to keep a snake in a 1 or 2 foot square while trying to take pictures... a "few times"...but travel time around the yard, consistently.

Maybe blood python genetics have changed since I stop breeding them in 95. Haha....
But, after going back and looking at my breeding and feeding records today....my bloods defecated every 13 - 17 days.(and it was because of the exercise I would give them...I'm sure).

Not saying everybody should (as it variates with each keeper).
Never did....just said it will help with the above mentioned problem...and it will.

Cheers.
D.

I was not saying that his snake was not dehydrated. I was just arguing a few statements.
Such as:
Ericlvins "I had a collection of 12 adult animals and a number of juvies and hatchlings. All deficated within 3-4 days of feeding. " Bloods are well known for having a slow metabolism. If you fed a adult blood a jumbo rat, I would be in shock if it defecated in 3-4 days. Check out redpython.net, and tell me he is not properly caring for bloods.
derekroddy "I would "walk" them 2 or 3 times outside every week for 30 to 45 minutes.
In doing this....they would defecate each time they were out (with-in 15 minutes). "
I definitely let my snakes roam before a photo shoot to let loose some energy, before sitting still.
I was arguing the strong statements a few of you made, not that someones snake could have been dehydrated.
Like all animals, snakes could be a bit different and not every healthy blood will defecate a meal after 3-4 days, or after 15 minutes of exercise outside.
Nice black heads and womas by the way, womas are my new fav snake. Hopefully black heads in the future.
Nick

Relax, I'm not questioning anybodys keeping qualities here.

I'm not the guy (or have ever been the guy) that has a snake that
has a problem... such as this.

I looked at (BoreFoot) thread in the blood forum and saw the picture of said animal.
It looks Bloated and impacted to me...in that picture.
Yes, I know these animals can get fat. (I did hatch 100's of them)
He is saying this animal doesn't defecate but every 4-6 months?????
That is not normal...even for Blood pythons.

Yes, they have a "slower" metabolism some pythons....BHP's have a "faster" one.
BUT, a 6 month cycle....dude, use your head.
Something is wrong here.

BoredFoot, if you're still following this thread....
Start taking this animal outside every couple of days for an hour.
Read a book, have a beer,... whatever.

I guarantee that you'll see an improvement in the "digestive health" of the animal in 2 to 3 months.

herper79
Thanks for the comments about the BHP's and Womas.
Got eggs cookin now so... when you're ready....reach out!

Cheers.
D.

ALL animals defecate more readily with "exercise", but on the reptile front it really isn't necessary. Do bloods need more humidity? Sure. Mostly before they shed, as their shed skins are quite thick as opposed to most snakes, but they can do fine with a water bowl and occasional soak. In the wild, a blood python is basically a water snake.

My time with reptiles? 45 years. With pythons, about 35. I've learned a bit in that time, but all snakes are different...even in the same species. All snakes can use a good soak, especially pythons. And I'm still learning.
-----
1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.1 Bloods
1.1 Balls
2.2 IJ Carpets
1.0 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
2.0 Jungle Carpet
0.1 Carpondro
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
.1 Brazilian Rainbow boas
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

I guess I don't have any first hand experience either. Do you know what they used to ship Malaysians over here in? I guess I also have to be sorry that my animals were "regular" and everyone elses aren't. Hmmmm....... talking out of my butt, er experience again. I guess these misconceptions are why we are still in the dark ages compared to the rest of the world. I will say this, again from experience, that most successful breeders are the ones not following the masses or taking a caresheet for gospel. It's all about your setup, and your individual animals.

derekroddy,

I have followed many of your posts in the past and can see you "know your stuff" to say the least and definitely listen to what you have to say.

My comments that I made in regards to this situation have been through my experiences as stated above. I would have to say that what you have stated about your experience with Bloods seems to be more involved then mine, thus I would like point that out to everyone on this board.
** The main reason for me posting is to put other ideas out there to ultimately**
help the animals. That is my main concern!

I have been keeping/breeding reptiles for about 15+ years and have experience with many reptiles species including bloods.

I will try and take my blood out more and see if that helps as you have stated in your post. Being dehydrated...I can’t see how my bloods can be as they have access to two large tubs of clean water everyday and have a 90-100% humidity hide box. They also get sprayed at least 1x per day with fresh water. Mine seem to only defecate when they go they are in “blue”. I currently am housing Western Black Heads and some other reptiles that are doing b/m on a weekly basis. Understanding all reptiles have different needs, I try to replicate nature in each and ever environment in which I create. I keep in mind that humidity and multiple hide spots are what is needed to have a “happy” blood.

I advise everyone to read as much as possible and listen carefully to all ideas discussed on this board. See what works for you and your animals and go from there.

I appreciate everyone’s posts and love to hear all ideas

Thank you,

Eric

Just because your animals have access to water and a humid hide doesn't mean they are hydrated the way they should be. You have to put it in a context that the animals know/understand, which may be 180 degrees from what your providing. They used to ship Malaysians over in crates packed full of wet Banana leaves. The ones kept in those same crates over here did exceptionally well, as long as the Banana leaves were replaced and wet down every day. The animals that were put in cages that were thought to be a correct set up had a very low success rate. I look at the situation this way, " You can lead a Donkey to water, but can't make him drink".

Ok...in that case what do you recommend? Since all my animals get soaked/bathed once per week as well as what I have mentioned prior how else can I up their hydration?

Your comment/post may have some validity but please elaborate as it didn't explain much!

Thank you and I appreciate any and all input!

Thank you,

Eric

It's all good man...that's why we're supposed to be here right? Haha.

Well, as far as I know.... you are keeping your animal right. You weren't the one with the problem. LoL

I just go on experience with the animals themselves. If it sits in a cage all day.... everyday...well, you can expect it's system to be slower.

IMO, I don't think it's very good for an animal to sit in one place or "cruise a 4 foot cage"..and that's it.
I feel these animal should have at least SOME sort of weekly workout and natural stimulus.
They move around in the wild...some, more than others, but they all search for food/mates/better environment, etc...

I noticed a complete turn around in my collection, years ago when I started doing this.

Like I said...you don't have to get crazy, anything is better than nothing.
Again, it's not necessary.
But, for big bodied animals... like bloods...
I think it helps with the long "dump" periods! Ha.

My work in the snake room was cut in half AND I got to spend more time with the animals.
Cheers.
D.

Thanks everyone for all your advice and experience. I'll try the exercising thing for my blood and see if that helps make her more regular. She already sheds well, drinks when she wants to and doesn't get overfed (1 F/T medium rat every 10 days). I appreciate reading all these posts and the lively debate--plus no one freaked out in the process. Definitely plenty of strong opinions out there, which just tells me we love our animals and want to see them thrive.

Thanks again.