Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I picked this little girl up almost two months ago from a really bad group of wild caught youngsters and she is now ready to move in with the rest of the group. It took a couple of weeks to get her feeding, but now she eats like a champ and has really come around nicely. Unfortunately I don't think any others from the group made it. I guess the story is that one of my local pet stores tried a new vendor and got burned with a horrible batch of WC tick infested balls. (I think that they were trying to make more money and learned the hard way that WC animals and pet stores don't do well) In the stores defense though, all of the snakes had been treated with PAM when I found them, and the owner was not attempting to sell any of them.
Anyway, Check out her eyes and that granite pattern! My camera is awful, but her belly is ridiculously yellow as well. Not bad for a freebie.

Now a question, is their any way of knowing for sure if she carries the het ivory gene? I have seen several yellow bellies in person, some with the classic speckling and almost no yellow and some with patternless bellies that are as yellow as a school bus. Is breeding the only way to know for sure?

Well That is a very nice Granite , but is not a Yellow Belly ! Just because the belly has a yellow color doesn’t make it a Y.B. , but to answer your Question not until you breed it to another true Granite you will not know. It is possible to get Ivory’s for two true Granites , I have don it as well as several Others have . Mine are both Granites state out of Africa as well but one is also a Y.B. female , not sure if that was a factor ,I was told it was not but have not been able to duplicate with a different paring using the same male ,and another female or my original female and different male . But get another true Granite to complete your pair and go for it . David

Truth is generally the best vindication against slander
Abraham Lincoln.

nice wc. Good luck with it in the future. I'm no expert buy I would lean on the granite side for sure.
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Education is Everything.......

sorry not buy, but. Sorry for the mispell.
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Education is Everything.......

Granites don't make Ivories(Het Ivory x Het Ivory make Ivory). Granites make Ebonies, and that's only if they are true granites. I have a granite female who gave me a surprise clutch last season(she was a rescue) and all of the babies were granites and female. She was bred to a BHB Het Ivory this season and should ovulate very soon. We'll see what happens
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-Becky Brown, RVT-
1.0 Lemon Pastel Classic Jungle,1.0 Black Pastel,1.0 Enchi,1.0 Yellow Hypo,0.1 100% het Butterscotch Hypo,0.1 66% Poss Het VPI Hypo,3.24 Normals,1.1 Spider,1.1 Yellowbellies(BHB),1.0 100% Het Pied Classic Jungle,1.3 66% Poss Het VPI Axanthic, 1.1 Poss Het VPI Snow,1.1 100% het Genetic Stripe

Sorry to disagree but it can and has happened on several accessions ,suppers or Ebonies and the Granites are not the only thing that can produce . It was a little known secret that they can produce Ivory’s and not every pairing will not produce them and I thought they may have been yellow belles but when paired with a YB they didn’t produce Ivory . I haven’t been able to find what exactly it is that will allow some pairings and not others to produce Ivory’s .I have tride with 5 other pairs with no Ivory . David

Truth is generally the best vindication against slander
Abraham Lincoln.

Just because they are a Yellowbelly, doesn't mean they are Het Ivory. I've never seen where Granite x Granite produced an Ivory. I have seen where Granite x Het Ivory produced Ebony. Maybe the Het Ivory was marked like a granite? I just know that I wanted to definitely produce Ivories, so I bought a pair of proven lineage Het Ivories from BHB. I didn't buy CH babies that "looked" like Yellowbellies or had a yellow belly.

Do you remember who it was that produced an Ivory from Het Ivory X Granite?
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-Becky Brown, RVT-
1.0 Lemon Pastel Classic Jungle,1.0 Black Pastel,1.0 Enchi,1.0 Yellow Hypo,0.1 100% het Butterscotch Hypo,0.1 66% Poss Het VPI Hypo,3.24 Normals,1.1 Spider,1.1 Yellowbellies(BHB),1.0 100% Het Pied Classic Jungle,1.3 66% Poss Het VPI Axanthic, 1.1 Poss Het VPI Snow,1.1 100% het Genetic Stripe

I cant recall his last name but his first name was John and he was a Herpetologist .and a very good scientist . He was big into genetics and worked with mostly protected species and was doing big things with Balls and Rat snakes when he died 3 years ago at 92 years old . David

Truth is generally the best vindication against slander
Abraham Lincoln.

David,

The truth is no matter how many times you try it, you will never produce an Ivory without using Het ivories(YB's) or Ivories. Some yb's are less spectacular than others, some barely have the flames, some barely have the belly side pattern, but they all have those traits to some extent. I've seen yb's that had a granite pattern and people were selling them as granites and not yb's. I've seen normals that looked similar but different from yb's being sold as yb's. The snake in the picture,unless it is the worst yb in existance will never produce an ivory. As far as the guy you mentioned producing an ivory from a non-yb pairing. It is possible for the greatest genetic wiz to not be able to identify bp morphs properly. When you have such variability in a morph (which the yb does have) it is easy for someone who is taught to think in the box to be mistaken which would have to be the case here.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Thanks Josh, that's what I was trying to get across. A YB is not always a Het Ivory.

On another note! I am SO ready to make Ivories next season!
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-Becky Brown, RVT-
1.0 Lemon Pastel Classic Jungle,1.0 Black Pastel,1.0 Enchi,1.0 Yellow Hypo,0.1 100% het Butterscotch Hypo,0.1 66% Poss Het VPI Hypo,3.24 Normals,1.1 Spider,1.1 Yellowbellies(BHB),1.0 100% Het Pied Classic Jungle,1.3 66% Poss Het VPI Axanthic, 1.1 Poss Het VPI Snow,1.1 100% het Genetic Stripe

I disagree, a yellow-belly MORPH is always a het ivory. However alot of people think the term yellow-belly was determined by the underside of the snake, which is not true. The term yellow-belly was derived by the bright yellow that reaches up from the belly onto the sides. Snakes that have normal patterned bellies, no flames with yellow blotches on their underside are not yellow-bellies. That is the reason that alot of people went with the term het ivory over YB since there are still some people that have crazy beliefs that every snake with a little yellow on the belly is a het ivory, THEY AREN'T!!! Here is a perfect example of a good YB (Het Ivory). Notice the broken (speckled belly pattern), the great flames, the yellow reaching up on the side.

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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!