Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In building a temporary enclosure for a boa, I came up with a question concerning the use of the melamine shelving type material that some people (myself included) use in the construction of a cage.
The stuff I am talking about is commonly availalable at home improvement stores such as home depot and lowes, has a smooth white melamine surface that is sandwiching a particle board core.

My thought on this is that it can’t be good for keeping living creatures in due to the constant outgassing of the urea formaldehyde used in the melamine and particle board. This would seem to be compounded by the fact that not only are they enclosed within this, but humidity and heating of the material exacerbates the outgassing process.
I know the average healthy adult human can react to levels in the range of .5 to 1 ppm, and logic tells me that a small reptile would be more susceptible to much lower levels. It's easier and cheaper for me to just simply stop using the material than to get an air quaility check performed within the enclosure.
( I can't help to think in terms of my having built the equivalent of a fema trailer for the boa)

Does anyone have any ideas, thoughts, or factual evidence about this? Or am I just being too overly concerned?

Read the MSDS and all your concerns will be handled....

IMO your over reacting....once cured the plastic is safe.

I've used cabinent grade Melamine in cages for over 5 yrs, not a single problem...

Cheers
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

0.1 Snow "Khal" RTB
1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.0 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
3.1 Red Bearded Dragon's
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0.1 Child

Very interesting.

I've been using it for three years with no health problems in my snakes. Also consider that most reptile cages, with the exception of glass aquariums/terrariums are made of some form of plastic. Also remember that we keep our food in plastic bags and containers, drink from plastic cups, drive around in plastic cars, etc. Just some thoughts.
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1.1.0 Hondurans Anery, Het Hypo
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0.2.0 Pueblans
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Considering the contact toxicity is 1000mg/kg for melamine alone in a pre used state, IE particlized, and that there is no contact toxicological information for Melamine coated particle board. I would consider it safe.

In fact the only chemical in the melamine overlay that is listed in section 313 of the emergency planning and community right to know act. Is Formaldehyde with a precentage by weight of .1 to .2%. And this only presents a danger during manufacturing, machining, sawing, or sanding. There is some evidence that the formaldehyde is realised through out the panels life however this is shown to decrease overtime. With chamber tests showing a standard deviation concentration of .04 PPM there is little worry even from the start.

So unless your reptiles are doing the previous actions to their cages I would consider them safe, probably safer than some other stuff you use with them.

Good Luck

Read the report from your water company......
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

0.1 Snow "Khal" RTB
1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.0 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
3.1 Red Bearded Dragon's
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0.1 Child

Ok, My bad I wasn't specific enough when I mentioned melamine. I was referring to the overall panel as a whole, but mainly thinking and concentrating on the gassing of the chip board (particleboard) in between the melamine.

The comment about placing our food in plastic bags, driving plastic cars, etc... had no direct correlation on what I was talking about. Those are all different types of polymers there. Heck, if I was concerned about using plastics, I would have questioned the usability of the acrylic front panel on the cage. But lets stay on point.

Bighurt gave some good data to form a valid opinion with and with that, we can surmise that the polymer is stable and not much of a threat.
I'm not wanting to create a debate back and forth as that would be nothing but a waste of everyones time, but only to clarify my original question so it's better understood, please allow me to re-phrase it:
What about the outgassing of the core material in the finished melamine covered panel. The chipboard.
We all know it's produced using formaldehyde as a bonding agent and while it does produce levels of formaldehyde vapor, and formaldehyde is known to be carcinogenic, I was looking for info and thoughts showing the overall 'threat' this would introduce to animal life surrounded by warm formaldehyde bonded wood.

The msds I read on one manufacturers site claimed that while the majority of problems obviously comes from exposure to dust particulates, there is significant risk from the vapors alone. It then goes on to mention the epidemiology studies that have shown the nasal cancer it causes in exposed rats and mice (but interestingly not hamsters) as well as humans. Unfortunately, without taking an air sample within a cage, there is really no way to make an accurate guess as to the levels of vapor within.

Now, as I said before, I've made cages with the material before and the snakes within are still very much alive and kicking and doing quite well (And have been for a number of years), so I'm not preaching that it's this horrible nasty stuff that we should all avoid at all costs... At the moment, I'm quite neutral to the material myself. It was just a question that popped into my mind as I was working on a cage.
I was curious about the long term carcinogenic effects that occur over time and wanting to see if anyone had any sort of issues with reptiles that were housed longterm. (Not to argue, but 5 years is not a lot of time when dealing with the development of certain cancers)
The one thing I am really curious about now is the porosity of the melamine covering.

And I did read the water company report. Thats why I blew a wad of cash on a whole house filter years ago and still buy distilled water to drink.

Your running into some of the same problems, I have faced in the past. There is currently no regulation that requires a consistant manufacturing of the product. So long as the company provides an MSDS for the material they are providing they are safe. Hell there isn't even a requirement to specify on the MSDS the quanity/type of use.

For example Isopropyl Alcohol will have the same MSDS for the product packed in a 55 gallon drum or a one gallon bottle. Even though we all know the hazards will vary different for both.

So my question to you are you looking at melamine, particle board, MDF, compressed wheat, or a combination?

I looked up the MSDS for both melamine itself, and a manufactured coated product. While both contain formaldehyde, I honestly believe the off gas warning was in reference to the sawdust and the particle board itself not the melamine resin coating.

Also remember its the polymerization of melamine and formaldehyde that makes up this resin.

And while formaldehyde has its own bad rep, melamine itself has made quite the debut. The wheat gluten recall of 2007 was caused by melamine particles found in pet food. This crystalline formation effected the kidneys and the urinary track in affected animals. Although melamine hasn't been conclusively linked to animal deaths. The USDA inconjunction with the EPA have expressed that the residual effect of melamine within meat, poultry and egg products are not a concern.

But there are tons of products made from Melamine resin;

Countertops
Furinature
Dishware
The magic Eraser
Formica
Arborite
Laminate Flooring
Whiteboards
Fabric
Glue
Flame retardent material
Drugs

and Formaldehyde;

Cigarettes
Fiberglass
Carpet
Cushion material
Fabric
Paper
Household cleaner
Shampoo
Bubble bath
Medicine
Disinfectants
Pressed Wood Products
Aspartame

As well as carcinogen's and carcinogen containing products;

Benzene
Asbestos
Vinyl chloride
Methylene chloride
Diesel Fuel
Anitbiotics
Nitrite
Talc
lanolin
fluoride
silica

Lets face it unless your a quaker livin' without any modern amenaties your going to be exposed and so wll our pets its just a fact of progress. However if your worried about the porosity of the melamine shell allowing more formaldehyde particulate than another product your in for a suprise cause there is more than enough formaldehyde in your home to fill in.

Besides if melamine was more porous than it was now it wouldn't be a good product to use in a cage anyways.....

Cheers

We all have to be paranoid I suppose, me I plan to build a militia! LOL
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

0.1 Snow "Khal" RTB
1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.0 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
3.1 Red Bearded Dragon's
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0.1 Child

As has been said the MSDS should be read for any materials being chosen for a cage. Even from caging companies.

Make sure things are safe for your animals.

The post regarding the use of plastics elsewhere missed the point that there are different grades made from different chemicals. Some off-gas, others do not. All have different properties, that's why Chemists and Materials Science Engineers have jobs. Not all the materials used by people in herpetoculture are safe. And some that are safe under some applications are not in others. I'd say more people are using unsafe materials than safe ones, and they either won't admit it, or shrug it off.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!