Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A boy in my neighborhood keeps snakes too, so I was going so sell him some extra pinkie mice because I recently started breeding my oun rodents. I encouraged him to buy frozen thawed, but he said something about it losing nutrients because it is frozen. I don't know that its true, otherwise thousands of snake owners would not be using FT, right? I just wanted to check, just to make sure. But even if it is true, there's a lot more advantages to feeding FT for the owner and the snake. So, anbody researched it?
Thanks for any comments!
T-spoon
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"Let us step out into the night and pursue that mighty temptress, adventure." (Albus Dumbledore)

My menagerie
2.1 Ball Pythons 1.0 Amazon Tree Boa 1.0 Corn Snake 1.0 Dumeril's Boa 1.2 Bearded Dragons(and 11 eggs!) 2.1 Crested Geckos 1.0 Sudan Plated Lizards 2.0 Eastern Painted Turtles 1.1.5 Eastern Box Turtles 1.1 Eastern Red-spotted Newts 1.0 Northern Mockingbird 0.3 Chickens 2.0 Cats 1.1 Ferrets plus lots of mice goldfish and feeder insects

I don't see how freezing the rodent would get rid of any nutrients. Do we lose nutrients when we freeze our food? I don't think so.
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1.1 Rosy Boa
0.1 Mexican Rosy Boa
1.0 Coastal Carpet Python
1.0 Miniature Daschund

If there is any loss of nutrients in F/T, I strongly believe that it is so tiny that's it's not worth mentioning. Therefore, I consider it a non-factor.

I've yet to see a study specifically measuring the amount of nutrients between fresh and F/T rodents. I believe the argument comes from studies of food for human consumption.

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that frozen meat, fruit & vegetables do lose some nutrients. I'm not a nutritionist, nor do I want to be, but I have seen many reports throughout my lifetime claiming frozen foods (or at least some frozen foods) do lose some. They're probably right, but I feel that it's getting into splitting hairs.

I'm also not a biologist or a doctor, but I believe the human body is more complex than a snake's body. I doubt that reptiles efficiently utliize all the various nutrients the way a human body does. So, I don't see the point in splitting hairs and talking about the possible loss of .05% of any given nutrient/vitamin.

The biggest factor in frozen food items is water-soluble nutrients. As long as typical, proper freezing, storing, and thawing guidelines are used, again, I believe it's a non-issue.

I strongly agree that the benefits of F/T far outweigh anything else.

It's not rocket science, and there's no need to turn it into such.

Have a good one!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

If there is ANY difference at all, the minute amount is not even worth mentioning. This topic comes up on all the other forums too, and I think it's pure nonsense.

Unless people are feeding their snake's rodent's that are freezer burnt beyond recognition, and are totally "mummified", I think they are just fine. One or two chubby-assed rodents once or twice a week, 52 to 104 times a year, is FAR more than they would get in the wild.

Also, as you mentioned, the benefits of freezing far out-weigh anything contrary, so what's left to debate?..LOL!......absolutely nothing in my opinion.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

And frozen mice cannot escape and live in your house either.

Peace,
Wayne
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1.2.9 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garter Snakes
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - common Garter - Princess
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua"
0.1.10 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snakes
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
0.1.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER" CB
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
1.2.0. Feline"Felix" "Kaja" & "Silver"
0.1.0. calico RAT
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

I agree with these guys. I think that any loss of nutrients would be neglibible. Otherwise all of our snakes wouldn't be growing like weeds and staying healthy. I use f/t exclusively except for one stubborn ball python.
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1.1.0 Hondurans Het Amel
1.1.0 Hondurans Anery, Het Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo
0.2.0 Pueblans
1.0.0 Pueblan Hypo
1.0.0 Thayeri MSP
0.0.1 GBK Blair's Phase
1.0.0 California King
0.1.0 California King Blue-eyed Blond
0.0.1 Speckled King WC
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet
0.1.0 Ball, Normal
0.0.1 Sulcata
0.1.0 Girlfriend, Caucasius Mexicana, Fiancee Phase

Yes, there is nutrient loss. When you freeze tissue the water in the cells expand and rupture the cell membranes. When you thaw the animal back out those nutrients can wash away (especially if you thaw in water). That being said, I don't think it's a huge deal though I do not know the exact numbers here. The advantage over feeding live as everybody seems to be aware of is that there is no risk of injury to the snake.

I usually feed F/T but go for live every few feedings or so. My reasoning there is that I've seen full-grown snakes who have absolutely no idea what to do with a live mouse and those seem to be the snakes that get injured by rodents. When my snakes first started on live pinkies there was no constriction -- it seems to be a "learned through experience" behavior. If a snake goes it's first 10 years without ever encountering a live rodent and then for some reason maybe I need to sell it I have no way of knowing if the new owner will feed live or not. I figure it may be a good idea to do it just often enough that the snake can make a quick clean kill. That's an entirely different topic though and one that I am basing on my own personal theories anyway

Right. If it made a difference, snakes kept on f/t wouldn't live as long as snakes fed live and/or they would not be as healthy. Also, the herp vets that I have spoken to all recommend feeding f/t. That said, I do feed my kingsnake a live fuzzy on occasion because I think the constriction is probably good exercise for him.

It's easy to get most snakes to contrict frozen prey... Once they bite onto it just shake/jiggle it with the tongs for few seconds until they start coiling around it. Most snakes will will coil around any prey they think is trying to escape, whether it's F/T or live.

All of my snakes except the Saharan Sand Boa eat F/T rodents (and I am working on converting her), and I make all of them constrict the rodents... Get any benefits from the "excercise" of constriction, and there is no chance of the prey fighting back.
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- Natalie
(San Francisco Bay Area)

1.0 Banded California King
1.0 Mexican Black King
1.0 Goini Kingsnake
1.0 Bay of LA Rosy Boa
0.1 San Ignacio Rosy Boa
0.1 Ortiz Rosy Boa
2.3 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1 Saharan Sand Boa
1.2 Rubber Boas
0.1 Pickering's Gartersnake

Feeding F/T also makes it easier for people to take care of your snakes while you're away. I always feed my snake in a separate container, so for me, feeding F/T ensures that someone is checking on my snake's health at least once a week.