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I have been told that I must get rid of the mice and rats that I have in my freezer, because it is ILLEAGLE to have frozen rodents. I also have to get rid of all of my live rats. Supposedly, they are a health hazard. I will probably end up paying large fines, and doing jail time. And never be allowed to own animals ever again. Just because I want to feed my w/c pet gopher snake. Also, my mother may loose her cat, whom she regards as her sister.

If I can't feed live, and I can't feed F/T (not that I have convinced my snake to eat F/T), what can I feed my snake? I don't think my snake is suddenly going to become a vegetarian; but is there anyway I can feed tofu, or vegeburger, etc.?

Has anyone run into this problem? What can I do? HELP! TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE! Early tomorrow, Friday, morning a friend is going to destroy all my rats for me, using car exhaust, instead of CO2, and dispose of the bodies. Without rats, live or frozen, what can I feed my finicky snake?

Apparently, in order to breed rats or mice, I need some kind of expensive license, requiring regular inspections.

SnakeyLakey

I'm sorry if I sound suspicious, but I am. Where do you live that you can't keep rodents of any kind?

Quig, curious in Michigan

Harney county, Oregon. I bought my pair of live rats in Idaho.

The mice and rats in my freezer are going to be confiscated. Unless, I can find some place to hide them, like a meat locker at the butcher shop. Though, I don't want to get him in trouble.

SnakeyLakey

Story. Clearly, there is nothing wrong or illegal with having frozen rodents on hand. I also highly doubt there are any codes against keeping live rodents where you live, but their may be. What authority claims to have a right to enter your house and check your freezer contents? Clearly, you're holding back on some key inof here. Fill us in, and we may be able to help...

The health department can search and seize even without a warrant. Having rodents in the freezer (suposedly) is not sanitary, even if they are bagged and in a differant freezer than food for human use.

Rats in cages in the house (suposedly) are unsanitary also, their dust will get into food.

My pastor says that I can not bring any food to potluck. until all the rats are gone, both live and frozen.

With no rodents allowed, frozen or live, what can I feed my finicky snake?

SnakeyLakey

Who is telling you this? How did they get involved in the first place?

Is it a local ordinance about keeping live rats? They DO know these are feeder rats, domesticated rats, and not WILD rats, correct?

Are there any pet shops in your town? how do they deal with rats being completely outlawed?

Something about this is completely fishy.

What does your PASTOR have to do with any of it? Why would he even know about it?

When our renter came over to pay her rent, she noticed my rats. She is involved with the Humane Society. She later, brought over another lady to rescue some of the rats. This second lady is now planning to go to the authorities. Our renter who is also a member of our church, also called the pastor. Apparently the pastor doesn't like rats of any kind.

Our renter also called the rancher who volunteered to kill the rats, using engine starter (as ether) and engine exhaust, as recomended by the veterinarian his son works with.

The nearest petstore is over 130 miles away. I live in a small ranching community. The feed stores only stock food for livestock, not snakes or rats.

SnakeyLakey

Living in America like we do, why wouldn't you seek immediate legal advice, and why did you feel the need to give in to these people and let them onto your property and in your home? If it were truly the Humane Society, they can't do anything.

Was it the humane society or the health department. What bearing does the health department have on you unless your in violation of housing codes????

Was the police force involved? And if so did they have a warrant to search the residence and file charges against you? Were you given a notice to reform and were you told explicitly what laws you have broken?

If you answered no to any of these questions, I would contact a lawyer right away and seek legal action against these people.

The fact that you've done everything they've demanded so far tells me that you won't doing anything after the fact.

I'm still very skeptical of this whole ordeal.

I am skeptical as well. Sounds like this "renter" saw hundreds of rats, called her "humane society" friend, and they came over and started making all kinds of threats. Getting the church involved is just ridiculous unless it was on church property.

It's the Humane Society folks.

The HSUS is not a law enforcement body. I supose they, in conjunction with local animal officials could intervene in the case of neglected or abused LIVE animals, but not with frozen feeders. Again, you're leaving out the biggest part of the equation...

Are you serious? The humane society is not the police, they have no right to go into your house and seize any animals unless they are with the police and animal control.

Why would they take your cat?

Unless these animals are being abused, and they have tried to contact you through animal control, there is no reason why they can take your rats or cat.

What's the rest of the story?????

I forgot, in a province in canada you cannot own rats at your house and will be met with fines. No pet rats either. They did a large scale extermination of rats years ago and put in laws to keep it rat free.

Do you live in canada?

"The Agricultural Pests Act forbids, the importation, sale or captive breeding of Norway rats or any subspecies or derivation of the genus Rattus. Pet shop owners, herpetologists and other persons interested in keeping rats as pets are not allowed to do so in Alberta. Only hospitals, universities and other related institutes of education, authorized by the government are allowed to possess live rattus species of any kind." According to a CBC Radio news report on September 21, 2004, anyone found keeping rats in Alberta can be subject to a $5000 fine. Pet rats are kept legally in all other provinces and territories in Canada although in the Fall of 2004 Saskatchewan announced that it was considering implementing a similar ban on rats."

np

instead of rodents, (which I know is the snake's natural diet).

I didn't know that even FROZEN rodents are illegal. It is cruel to freeze animals, or so they say.

The health inspector and the police are going to arrive at any moment. They are even going to take my mother's cat. I wonder if we can hide the cat somewhere.

There is a short span of time, in the Spring, when my finicky snake will eat. That time is just beginning. Now, I am to be denied any form of rodent to feed the snake.

So, what else can I feed?

SnakeyLakey

first of all,I'm sorry, I can see that you're already being bombarded with questions, and I'm sure that your life at home is not easy right now either.
Why in the world would the HUMANE society want you to kill that many rats? You seriosly need to report these people. Just because your pastor is afraid of rats dosn't mean that they can murder all your pets! Also, freezing live rodents is considered inhumane, but putting them to sleep first is not. Please forgive me for being to straightforward, but I think that you're a coward for letting them do this to your animals, unless there is something that you're not telling us and you are actually abusing these animals by not propery caring for them.
Also, If you caught your snake in your area and its not eating except in spring, its probably better for the snake just to release it.
There is no excuse to kill that many animals, especially when they will not even be used to feed annother animal.
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"Let us step out into the night and pursue that mighty temptress, adventure." (Albus Dumbledore)

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2.1 Ball Pythons 1.0 Amazon Tree Boa 1.0 Corn Snake 1.0 Dumeril's Boa 1.2 Bearded Dragons(and 11 eggs!) 2.1 Crested Geckos (and 2 eggs!) 1.0 Sudan Plated Lizards 2.0 Eastern Painted Turtles 1.1.5 Eastern Box Turtles 1.1 Eastern Red-spotted Newts 1.0 Northern Mockingbird 0.3 Chickens 2.0 Cats 1.1 Ferrets plus lots of mice, goldfish, and feeder insects

Well apparently my answers wasn't good enough in the other section, so they got deleted.

Rats are illegal in Alberta, Canada. I had a sited source on the actual reasoning... but yea, don't feel like looking it up again for it to just get deleted again. They are illegal in that province. I don't know of anywhere else.

I am not a child. I am middle aged.

Friday morning most of my rats were killed, by a church member; using engine starter (for ether) and car exhaust, then thrown in the trash; as per the instructions of a veterinarian. While my rats were being killed (against my wishes); I got banned from the forums. I had nearly 100 rats, now I am down to 14. (I will probably have to get rid of the rest of them as well.) Only 2 of these might be small enough for my gopher snake to eat. And this is the begining of the very short period of time when my very finicky snake will eat.

Friday afternoon, I did call the nearest petstore, in a city about 130 miles away. They assured me that feeding frozen rodents not only is legal, but recomended. I have yet to check on possible local prohibitions. My pastor and the church member who killed my rats, both say that I can not have any frozen rodents anywhere on our propery.

My mother (a senior citizen), also called for legal advice with the prepaid legal service she had joined.

In my town, some of the Humane Society people have some strange ideas. There is a crime called animal hoarding. A lady that I know of (she sometimes comes to potluck at church) was arrested, served jail time, fined a large sum of money, and not allowed to have any animals, or contact with any animals for the rest of her life, just because they claimed that she had too many dogs.

I am terrified that the same thing will happen to me, just because my rats were a little overcrowded, because my finicky w/c snake would not eat. The health department, humane society, and law enforcement officers will confiscate ALL animals, including my mothers cat, even if they are well cared for.

There was another lady who had her healthy horses confiscated, for animal neglect, even though they all had been well cared for and not neglected or abused in any way; she might be lucky, and eventually get them back.

I haven't been able to convince my snake to eat thawed frozen, yet, so I am trying to find alternative food for my snake.

SnakeyLakey

Are ignorant fools with an agenda. Because they are afraid of snakes and rats, they're telling you a bunch of lies trying to scare you. You can have the rats in your freezer, and NO ONE can tell you not too. Its not illegal, its not unsanitary, or immoral. Cut you collection down to a few rats, get everything super clean and organized, and make sure you're not doing anything that is ACTUALLY illegal, and you'll be fine. I suspect the shear volume of 100 rats is what kicked off this problem for you.

my pastor does semm to be afraid of rats and snakes.

You are also right that I must keep every thing strictly clean and in control. If I am extremely lucky this whole issue will pass over.

Thank you for your advice and concern.

SnakeyLakey

i don't tell ppl what i do, it's none of their buisness, this is how we get in trouble, the more you advertise you have snakes someone will call it in to check your in the law, same with rodents, this is what you get for opening your mouth and thinking you are being nice, keep things to yourself, i have too, and it's good for security if you have high valued snakes too. SShhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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2.0 cats (Simba, Morris)
fish & feeders

Is your pastor now suddenly a police officer or lawyer? I hate to bad talk a pastor, but this is ridiculous. Unless he is an enforcer of the law, he can't force you to do anything.

You did this, you let them in, and you let them take your animals.

Again, where were the police in all of this?

Have you talked to a lawyer yet and sought damages?

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of when you have no clue if they are right or not concerning any laws in your town.

i work for a large county animal control. i run into these humaniacks all the time. the humane soc. crazies can't stand the thought that the rats are feeders so they are making trouble for you. they are probably going nuts looking for someone to harass in a ranching community and they found you. there is nothing they can do to you if you are in your own home. stand up to authority.

Then why would you have hundreds of rats?
How many snakes do you have? All you have mentioned so far is what you will feed to your gopher snake. You have not mentioned any other snakes?

I think complete honesty with this question will help to clear up some issues I and others have with this post.

How many snakes do you have?? If you had 1 snake and hundreds of rats... I would have to question what your motivations are.

. . . up on animal hoarding, which is what I am being accused of. In my state, this is a felony. I have two snakes; a GB Gopher, and a Wandering Garter. Both wild caught.

I did not have hundreds of rats, only about one hundred. I started with a single pair, last year. I only had them, and their descendants. Yes, the population did get a bit out of control. Yes, I did have a little overcrowding. I couldn't get enough containers set up fast enough.

Now, since most of the rats have been killed, I have only fourteen rats left. The six males, and eight females are now completely separated; no more uncontrolled breeding.

I now understand why I should dispose of my frozen rats and mice. They will simply be regarded as dead animals. The fact that I froze them for snake food, will be irrelevant; as will be the fact that I finally discovered that frozen rodents are legal after all.

SnakeyLakey

That does make more sense. If you were gassing them, freezing them and selling, I can see how they have no right to take any of your frozen rats.

Well, I hope you get things all worked out. Have you considered what your going to do with the weanlings?

I would recommend you find a schedule and rotate your males in and out of the females group, just for population control.

Keep up

I wont have any weanlings for awhile. The last rats that my gopher snake ate were the last two litters of pinkies, because I knew that the rat mothers were going to be killed.

Weanlings are about the right size for my snake to eat. Anything much larger than a large mouse is really too big for my snake to swallow comfortably.

The only rats that I ever sold, were five, mouse size, live rats, that I sold for one dollar each, to one lady for her snake. Backyard dog breeders make more than that on the sale of a single puppy.

If my finicky snake will eat, I plan on feeding as much of the next litter as my snake will eat, then gasing and freezing the rest. I have yet to introduce Charlie-Coal and Cindy-Cinder to each other Both are black self rats from the same litter, the third, and last, litter from my original pair of rats. I am building a bigger cage for them. They have not seen each other since they were weanlings. once I am sure Cindy is pregnant I will move her to a cage of her own.

SnakeyLakey

I am curious how you kept up the cleanliness of almost 100 rats?

I have pet rats that are also bred for feeders and keeping clean healthy cages for 7 (2 large wire cages) is a daily chore
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cats, dog, ferret, rats and hamsters

I couldn't. That is what got me in trouble.

SnakeyLakey

I think everyone has missed a key point....SnakeyFlakey is a complete idiot....now, is rodent pro the best deal out there right now?
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That just boggles my imagination.
I have 25 snakes, 23 rats (6.17), and 9 mice (1.8), and my snakes get 2x more food than they should, and I still have a surplus.
I can't even imagine the upkeep on 100 rats in a house.

car exhaust to kill rats should be regarded as cruelity. It burns their lungs and eyes and chokes them. Why wasn't CO2 from paintball canisters or something used?

I suggest that you learn to use CO2 to euthanize your feeders when they get to the right size, and then freeze them. Freezing them alive is cruel also.

I can understand why people would be upset and want you to give up your animals if you had a hundred rats in filthy conditions, like it seems you did.

For two small snakes there's no reason why you should even have 14 breeding rats. I've got a burmese python and only have 4 breeding females right now.

Some people aren't cut out for raising their own feeders. It takes a lot of money for initial start up (and in your case, continuing since you allowed them to grow too big and needed more cages) and a lot of time to change bedding, clean cages, etc. It also takes a lot of planning to ensure you won't be overrun and will always have just the exact amount you need. I would suggest that you look into buying them frozen online or at a local shop.
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~Sara~
"If you look down on me, I am evil, If you look up to me, I am God, if you look straight at me, I Am you"
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You totally gave up your fourth Amendment rights as a citizen of the United States of America.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

If some Humane Society person and preacher came to my door demanding me let them kill my rats and snakes for animal hoarding I would have threatened them with a loaded 12ga shotgun if they did not remove themselves from my property. If a member of law enforcement was with them I would have demanded a search warrant. If they had none I would have shut the door in their faces. If they forced themselves inside and killed my rats and snakes against my will I would grabbed a video camera and filmed them entire process for a future law suit.
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Brad Ratliff
Ratliff Reptiles
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