Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok im sure this topic has been brought up 1 million times on this forum, but what is the ideal substrate. I use play sand (i thank eve for that advice), but i had a guy tell me today that he uses calci sand with his uromastyx and his leopard geckos, and has never had any problems, and that i shouldnt even use play sand. what the heck? does this guy know what hes talking about or is he gonna have a bunch of dead lizards soon.I cant beleive this is still a debated topic. I thought it was settled that calci sand is dangerous for lizards.

I have heard bad news with Calci sand, but I also know someone that has used it for a very long time with no ill effects. The person I know uses it with Leopard Geckso. My thoughts are, leopard geckos are not as agressive when it comes to feeding. This person puts mealworms in bowls or dishes for her geckos. Collareds tend to dive and sometimes get face fulls of subtrate. I think either sand or calci sand would not be good to get too much of.

For me, it boils down to price. Calci sand is so expensive I don't think it is worth the extra money. Its kind of like paying for crickets that have been individually hand fed.

Kind Regards,

John

You have to look at it this way the big name pet stores will push CalciSand and other so called lizard substrates onto new and uneducated lizard owners. The basic lizard purchased generally can be replace without too much cost to the customer so push what looks pretty, expensive, and dangerous to their new pet. As far as CalciSand, I have heard and read about bad things happening to a couple of different lizards, Collareds and Bearded Dragons. Both are aggressive eaters and do tend to get some extra sand with their cricket or mealworm. From what I have seen of CalciSand is that it tends to be very fine and will through dust easier than PlaySand. CalciSand is more than likely perfect for the less aggressive species in addition to herbivors.

I use PlaySand because Eve and others schooled me in substrates and I did lose a Bearded Dragon before I came to these boards. He was on crushed walnut, the salesperson told me it was perfect for Beardeds. There are other substrate products out there that are new and flashy but ask a reptile salesperson you trust about them.

thanks i wasnt looking for a new substrate, i was bringing it ub for conversation purposes. I cant afford to put that much calcisand in a 40 gallon tank. it cost me three dollars for a 50 pound bag of sand. im not buying the eqivilant in calcisand. i wanst planning on it, but was a little confused. this wasnt for me though i asked for the sake of everyone.

Has anyone tried heat-sterilized, tightly packed dirt? Harder to spotclean than sand, but not impossible. Much harder to ingest, but really no worse if swallowed than sand would be. And they can still dig in it if they want to.
I haven't, but I know of other desert lizards that thrive on it. I'm just asking.
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0.1 Coastal Carpet Python (Boots)
0.1 Western Hognose Snake (Bebe)
0.1 Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 Northern Diamondback Terrapin (Queequeg)

I was a microbiologist for 12 years and we had to sterilize all kinds of medias for growing specific cultures. The hardest to sterilize were those that were solids...like flours/proteins etc. Liquid medias could be sterilized the best. The problem with things like sand and soil, is it is really hard to get it all heated evenly. Some spore forming bacteria can be next to impossible to kill. It would be a lot of work to sterilize that much dirt, and I'm not sure how good it would make your kitchen smell. I have never been too concerend about that kind of stuff to be honest. I have kept lizards both inside and outside. I'll admit, I've had my share of problems, but keeping bacteria out of cages is impossible. The best thing you can do is keep the cage clean to try to eliminate a good environment for harboring more bacteria.

Kind Regards,

John Eddington

I have seen an autopsy of a leo that died of calcisand impaction, and severl of beardies. Play sand can also cause impaction if the animal is dehydrated or otherwidse compromised. Some of it will stay in the intestinal wall, and I have seen sand come out in fecies in rescues that have been off of it for up to a year. There is a minimal risk of impaction even with playsand, but calcisand has been proven to be deadly. I will try to hunt up some links.

As the last poster suggested, sand can harbor bacteria if you don't change it out monthly or every other month. It also becomes dusty if it gets too old and dry, and can then cause eye and respiratory problems. I have seen both in rescue dragons.

I use tile and slate in all of my vivs, and provide hides. It looks really nice and is super easy to clean. You can get sandstone that looks just like sand.

you mentioned dry sand, whats the recommended humidity for a collared lizard, i usually dont pay attention to humidity cuz their arid reptiles so does that matter as much for them as it would for other reptiles. i have a water dish in there so they get water from that. so what the conclusion collareds and humididty?

I think the humidity should be fairly low, but what I meant by dry sand is sand that is very old and has been in a fairly arid viv for a long time. I took in a rescue beardie that had been on the same sand long enough for it to have turned to dust. The beardie had MBD from not being provided UVB for 4 years, had an RI probably from the dust and poor temperature regulation, and was impacted with sand. He was also emaciated. He is still alive and still here. He is not adoptable because it is doubtful that he will ever be able to walk, at least normally, again. But he is very comfortable and much loved.

Sand becomes a problem in conjucntion with husbandry practices that are off, mostly temperature, moisture, and cleanliness. Its also a good idea to have at least part of the viv either tiled or rocked to set food on. Try to avoid feeding on sand, and that will reduce the amount ingested.

wow, my guys are nowhere near that bad, but when i would clean their tank i did notice a lot of dust would kick up. i was sure it was bad for them but didnt think much of it. ive doen two substraite changes since i got them, every 4 months or so, so yeah my guys are good. i watered the tanked down to keep out some humidity in there. i gotta keep up on that.

For collareds, you don't want the humidity level too high, as they are from arid areas. Too much humidity can cause respiratory infections. You really can't keep the sand from breaking down by raising the humidity because it won't be good for your lizards. Just don't let the sand get too old and dirty.

If you check this kind of sand out, it is much less dusy than playsand gets, and it also has an appealing roundness to each grain rather than a crushed consistancy. I used to use it exclusively in my tanks. Now I grab the cheap sand. The only places that sell the pool filter sand are the pool stores and there are none close by or I would still get it. It costs a bit more, but you get a lot of it unlike calcisand. I think it was 9-10 dollars for a sack large enough to do a 55 gallon tank easily. It also has a nice white color too. I think the round granules pass through the intestine much easier than playsand because they are much less abbrasive.

Kind Regards,

John Eddington

nice i have pool at my house so if my dad goes to the pool store i may look into going with him for some of that ( pool is his realm)next sand change i may try it. good idea

what about mixed substrate. went to zoo and saw their desert disply and they had like little bits of gravel dir and sand all together in one substrate. ??? anyone try mutiple materials for a substrate.

This may be something similar. I found a bag of unused sand in the house I bought. It is labled "traction sand." It is typically sold in the winter for people to carry in their cars, so they can throw some down under their tires. I used it to throw some down under my lizards. It looks great mingled in with some flat stones etc.

I have a friend that used to buy it, rebag it, and sell it under his own business name at reptile expos. It really is pretty nice stuff. Make sure you use it when it is new...not after it comes out of the filter...that really smells bad. ;O) Let me know what you think.

Kind Regards,

John Eddington

pool sand hunh, hhhehehehhehe, YF Sockhead

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PHEve / Eve

sounds like a stellar idea........really coarsed stuff too isn't it?
better than that fine stuff you can buy.
like the idea

while were on the topic of sand might as well bring up the rest of the terrarium. whats the ratio of rock formations to runing room. my guys tend to just hop from rock to rock but im thinking it could be to cluttered. should i give them more room or more rocks.they have plenty in a 40 gallon tank, but in terms of floor space not sure. should I give them altitude as well try and use some of the tanks hieght?

ohh i was wondering if anyone would want to show their setups, i was curious to see how other people accomodate their collareds.