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Anerythristic incompatibilities???

Does anyone have information about incompatible Colombian Anerythristic Bloodlines?

I bred an Anerythristic female back in around 1992. Obviously each of her babies was het for Anerythristic. I subsequently bred three of her female babies and produced the first Ivory Anerythristics in about 1998 or so. I sold one of the other female hets I had to a fellow who bred her to an Anery male and did not produce any Anerythristics. He may read this post and follow up about it. Later he sold that female to another breeder who bred her to a different Anery and produced Anerys.

Does anyone else have specific information about incompatible Anerythristic Colombian Bloodlines?

A couple Anery birth pictures to entertain you while you mull on my little question and to show off a bit too I guess. Some of the best photos I was ever fortunate to get actually. Great camera!

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np
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PIJAC Member

I have never heard of different Anery lines. If he sold the het anery female to someone who later proved her out, then there is no doubt about her genetics. There are some darker normal boas out there that someone could mistake as being an anery. So my question is this.
Did the male anery, or so called anery ever prove out in any other breedings?
You didn't say if the male has ever proven out in any other breedings.
Just wondering.
Brian

I do believe there are two distinct types of anery, Type I and II and just like in Kahl and Sharp strain albino the two are incompatable.

I myself have always wondered about how these genes are mapped on an allele. Are the two actually two different genes capable of working together, meaning you could have het or dual expresssion. Or more likely these are two geneticly distinct variations of the same allele, meaning they can't be expressed together.

What ever the case even if the genetics of both parents are 100% known it is possible that the mutation is not expressed. For example Het to Het in a ressesive mutation pairing generally results in 25% expression of the trait. It is possible that in smaller litters or through total chaos that those embryo's didn't develop or that those zygotes didn't meet.

Just like in human fertilization the precentages don't always add up. Whats the statistic for faternal twins being same sex? How many times does that happen?

Sometimes mother nature throws us a curve ball....

Cheers

PS Great pics Jeff
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

0.1 Snow "Khal" RTB
1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.0 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
3.1 Red Bearded Dragon's
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0.1 Child

Now I'm confused or maybe not. It was my understanding that type II Anery always referred to Central American Anery Boa types. Which look different then the type I Colombian Anery Boas. What I don't know still is if there are more then one distinct Colombian Anery Type. Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

Hi,
It has recently been shown that Central American boas exist in both type I and type II forms of anerythrism.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology
3309 Gardner Hall
Raleigh, NC 27695-7613

Does that mean there are two forms in the Central American Boas that are NOT compatible?
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>>Does that mean there are two forms in the Central American Boas that are NOT compatible?

And the real kicker are both CA types compatible with the Columbian strain. For that matter is the Colombian strain eve a pure strain or was its source like the Hypo straight from the CA.

If so how many morph's came from the CA linage, and have all the local's given us additional flavor's for our cupboard.

IMO they are all beautiful but its nteresting to conjecture.

Cheers
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

0.1 Snow "Khal" RTB
1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.0 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
3.1 Red Bearded Dragon's
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0.1 Child

YES!

Vin Russo and Tom Burke have done work with both Nicaraguan Type I and Nicaraguan Type II. They are not compatible.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

That's one of the current problems with CA Anerys, first there are multiple CA locale with Anerythristic forms. There are then Type I and Type II, and ones that appear Anery, yet do not reproduce when "hets" are bred together.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

Yes, any Anerys that have clean white bellies are total Duds...just send them to me and I will give them a nice cozy home!

CONGRATS!!! Great pic coming into the world!

Andy
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I think it was Jeremy Stone that once posted he had an Albino X Het breeding, the Het he produced so he knew it was a het. Out of a decent sized litter he didn't get Albinos, but the Het did produce Albinos in a later litter.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

Excellent points. The fellow that had a Het from me and bred her without producing any Anerys, had a very convincing argument that it was in fact an Anery male. I can't remember it exactly any more. That was quite a while ago. I remember at the time believing that it was an incompatible gene. Perhaps it was either just bad luck in not producing any Anerys or it may in fact have not been an Anery male.

Thanks for the feedback!
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About 6 years ago I purchased an anery male adult that was from an anery line that by history had been proven genetic. The male had no yellow, a very light body, very black eyes and extensive black flecking towards the tail which eventually became a black tail with no pattern. I bred him with a dhet ghost from my ghosts which have been bred by many other people and produced anerys. In this breeding there were no anerys produced. He was a very black boa but was he really an anery?

Other side of the story. I had a blood boa from the original group that were shown to be het for type 2 anery by the production of the first Pewters by Ron St. Pierre. I bred the blood male with a big double het for ghost female of mine. The litter was premature with a few babies that died but there was an anery and 2 ghosts that looked perfect but were too premature.

So I have bred two animals that were type 1 colombian anerys from known lines and produced no anerys. I bred a known colombian type 1 anery dhet for ghost with a pure blood boa that was het for "type 2" anery and produced anery animals.

I am not sure what it all means. I think most colombian type 1 anerys are compatible or we would have heard more stories like these. I am not sure what type 1 vs type 2 means in relation to the anery that the blood boas have. I will leave that to the experts.

Bill Kirby

" I will leave that to the experts."

Bill who exactly would that be if yourself and Jeff are posing these questions and other small breeders like myself are posing potential answers certainly there are no experts. Field or observational experts perhaps but define experts.

One thing for sure is this subject is far from closed and without the conversation of fellow breeders in this type of venue there certainly wouldn't be a resolve.

Hopefully some individuals are documenting these trials so a thesis or working thesis can be referenced. I know mother nature throws us all for a loop now and than again, but its these mysteries that make Boa's unique and genetics interesting.

When in doubt, lets just look at some purty Boa pictures!

Cheers
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

0.1 Snow "Khal" RTB
1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.0 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
3.1 Red Bearded Dragon's
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0.1 Child

Bill I had wondered about your breeding results. Did you ever try the breeding again? Because they were stillborn it is still "possible" that they just "looked" anery because their color wasn't fully developed.

Also, has anyone bred a Pewter to a Type II Anery Nicaraguan? Because the Blood and the Pewter, thus the Anery strain involved, are El Salvador, it could very well be that they aren't Type II like everyone thought.

Until Tom and Vin began their breeding projects all the Anery CA stuff was called Type II.

I distinctly remember when Gus Rentfro posted the first US CBB Nicaraguan Ghosts, he had bred a Hypo X Normal and got Anerys and Ghosts as well. Everyone thought they were Type II. Tom bought them, worked with them, turns out they are Type I. Tom and Vin both had previously had animals related to these boas.

Vin told me directly that Type I and Type II Anery Nicaraguans are not compatible, a proof he came to in breeding trials.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

You sure Gus produced the first CA ghosts? I believe Bryant King proved his out a few years before Gus did. The Ghost that Bryant had was the first suspected CA Ghost, though their were alot of nay sayers about the prospect of a ghost happening naturally.

Bryant's was imported was it not? Tom Burke also had one that was imported.

I do believe at least the Hypo that Gus used was produced by Bryant. He or Tom (since Tom bought them) should be able to confirm that.

Bryant produced Hypos from his Ghost before, but I was not aware of him producing US CBB Ghosts with it. ??
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!