Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If you were going to raise them for a little while since most of my snakes are small and eat fuzzies or pinkies which would you rather raise and is one better nutrition wise?

And here is something kinda weird.. my MBK is not a very good killer, (even at 5yrs old) he has been fed live his whole life from the guy before me. Once he got bit by a hopper!!! So I usually get him 2 good size rat pups (no fur) once a week.
Except today I saw young gerbils at the store furred and a little bigger than the pups I get him. I have NEVER seen him with such a fast strong feeding response, he coiled tight!! Does that mean he would prefer gerbils? They are more expensive but I don't care if it makes him happy.

Thanks, Raven's mom

Usually, a snake will only use as much energy as is needed to subdue it's prey. If it's a small helpless prey item, many times they will just swallow it down alive, but if the prey is much larger, has more strength, and is struggling frantically, the snake will constrict the prey with all it has to overpower it.

This being said, ..one BIG warning on feeding girbils to snakes. If a snake doesn't eat it immediately, and the live gerbil is left in the cage with the snake, gerbil's are much more prone to attacking the snake than mice or rats, but ANY rodent, no matter what type should not be left in the cage if not eaten readilly. I've heard absolute horror stories of things going wrong in regards to this, when I was a young kid, I experienced this very thing FIRST-HAND, and a nice 5 foot Indigo of mine had the entire tail eaten by a mouse,...nothing but vertebrae all the way up to the cloaca!

I personally, as well as many others, choose to feed either F/T, or freshly killed prey, this way you know the animal won't bite your snake,..not to mention the freezing of prey kills all pathogens/parasites the food prey might be carrying, also frozen bagged rodents are extremely handy too.

Anyway, be cautious of live prey, ESPECIALLY gerbils!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I don't care much for the show but I always watch until the food is eaten before I leave the room.
I can't imagine finding your snakes tail eaten YUK!!
But I do have a question that I hope doesn't cause a big debate and that is the live or pre-killed or frozen?
I kinda think of eating frozen thawed as eating TV dinners for the rest of your life.
Mine will not eat pre-killed I have tried that also.
But my question is mainly to do with the pathogens/parasites... in the wild aren't they built to deal with it the same way a cat or dog can eat raw meat and not get salmonella?
Or with people the less germs your exposed to the more likely you are to get sick. A healthy strong immune system is built by being exposed then your bodies nautral defense kick's in and starts kicking butt so then when you are exposed to that same virus or cold you don't get it again because you have already built up antibodies.
Why or how is this different with captive snakes and wild snakes?
I really am not trying to tweek any noses here but this truly intrests me.
Thank you for any responses

Well, first off, snakes already have a well developed and highly effective auto-immune system, as well as a high risistance to sickness. They are amazingly adapted at thwarting off ailments such as respiratory infections, infectious stomatitis(mouth rot), and certain diseases, and additionally to heal tissue wounds without infection taking over. It's when they get stressed for any number of reasons that things can go "down-hill" fast. Also many wild snakes(and captive ones) are likely to harbor a certain amount of internal parasites as well, this is quite normal for them to be a "host" to some parasites to a certain extent.

Most rodents also harbor Pinworms and other parasites to some degree, and any other number of possible flukes, Cestodes, Trematodes, and the like. Snakes systems are well adapted at coping with these levels of parasites to a great degree.

It is known that if stress and parasite levels become too high though, that serious problems can and do arise.

So without adding more parasite loads to captive snakes with offering live, they are less likely to have problems. This is certainly NOT to say that feeding live rodents will cause problems, because it is not necessarily the case, but if given the choice, and weighing the pros and cons of both, most prefer to feed F/T rodents. Just to also add that I've fed tons of live rodents to snakes over the many years too, but there really isn't a reason it must be live prey, and several reasons people go with frozen, not to mention the handiness.

Also, if a snake gets a bad constriction hold of a frantic rodent, the rodent will bite whatever is within biting distance of it's mouth, eyes, mouth body scales, etc... that can cause big problems. I've seen this many many times myself, and who wants an rare expensive snake, or ANY snake for that matter in their collection getting bitten?.

In any case, I'm not so sure I answered your question directly, but this is my opinion regarding this.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I forgot that you mentioned your snake won't eat F/T. Have you tried thawing it out a few hours on it's own(not soaked in water)on a paper towel, then heated slightly to near rodent temp over a lightbulb that has a screen on top, sort of like a mini mouse grill, only with a low-watt bulb instead of a fire..LOL!,.....Then wiggle it in front of the snake with a long thin pair of tongs,....this way the snake doesn't think you're a part of what you're offering, and it also sees the prey wiggling!,...this more often than not triggers a feeding response to some that prefer live.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Thanks Doug, helpful as always, I tried thawing on the counter for hours til I felt it was room temp. but no go. I also tried to feed ones that the mother mouse had just killed (brain exposed) and he still wouldn't eat it. But I will try warming it and using tongs.
thank you

Killer advice from Doug as always!!!!!

Frozen thawed mice is the way to go, in my opinion!!!

If this helps in the subject of thawing rodents, here is my take:

I thaw mine out in a small plastic Igloo type drink cooler. If you are thawing out just one or a few mice, simply put them in, fill the cooler with very hot tap water, and then in 15 min., they are completely thawed. This also works for as many as 20-30 mice of different sizes. Anyways...Grab them out of the water with tongs, dry with a paper towel with the other hand, and then give them to your snake. They will be warm as well from the hot water, plus dry as well. This has worked for me for the past 18 years.

Keep us posted!

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Genesis 1:1

Some of mine are picky and I have to wash the scent off using bar soap. This has worked like a charm for switching my grey-banded king and one of my California kings to f/t. It may be worth a try for you.
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1.1.0 Hondurans Het Amel
1.1.0 Hondurans Anery, Het Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo
0.2.0 Pueblans
1.0.0 Pueblan Hypo
1.0.0 Thayeri MSP
0.0.1 GBK Blair's Phase
1.0.0 California King
0.1.0 California King Blue-eyed Blond
0.0.1 Speckled King WC
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet
0.1.0 Ball, Normal
0.0.1 Sulcata
0.1.0 Girlfriend, Caucasius Mexicana, Fiancee Phase

I thaw out mine in a very small ziploc bag in a cup of hot water. I have a "Hot Shot" which heats water to very, very near boiling so it only takes about five minutes for a solid-frozen mouse to completely thaw. I keep checking it with my fingers to make sure it's thawed all the way through. When the mouse no longer feels cold in the middle when gently squeezed, it's done. I never let them sit in the baggie in water too long, so they don't get all soggy.

The good part, Ravensmom, about feeding f/t is that you don't *have* to stand there and watch. Put them in a feeding tank, drop in the mouse, and usually when you come back an hour or two later, the mouse is gone. Snakes do eat dead prey in the wild. ^_^
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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Florida Kingsnake (Eddie Gein)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Black Cat (Shadowfax)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan) (Deceased )
1.0 Tennessee Walking Horse (Durango)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)

Problem is, they are no longer in the wild, (yous and our snakes) so they cannot get the supplements found in the wild that their prey are gut loaded with! I hope that makes sense, cause almost all of our best feeding regimens do not include insects that dine on varied plant material that the rodents and lizards would have in the wild. Some people are doing just that, but I still don't believe you can turn a captive bred into a wild type animal in your enclosure, not to mention the thermal gradients snakes can get to to digest and aid in killing bad pathogens.
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Todd Hughes

I agree 100% with Doug. Early on when I began breeding snakes I tried live Gerbils once. Once is the key word. They, and hamsters are notorious for riddling the snakes up. I was left with a snake that had a serious wound from the gerbil. And that was less than an hour from putting it in the enclosure. Doug is spot on. I hope you can get him switched to F/T. Good luck.
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0.1 Mexican Black King
1.0 Brooksi King
1.0 Japanese Bobtail
1.0 Maine Coon

I raised a few gerbils for my wild caught subocs, they went for them but I noticed they didn't digest all the hair. I think mice and rats are the right thing for kings, but I could see supplementing with a gerbil once a month or so. maybe you should consider pre-killing the mice by thumping and do a little shake for the mbk. If he isn't dead on, one of the mice could get him bad, I have a couple calkings that are...let's say clumsy!
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Todd Hughes

Thanks all.. I will keep trying.