Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I figure you guys probably don't get many updates from all the people you've helped over the years so I try to check in every couple of years...

In 2002 my kids brought home a little wild caught western garter begging to keep it. First we almost cooked her with a heat lamp, then figured out she had mites and rubbed her down with olive oil every couple of days til they were clear, got bigger tank, UTH, got feeding down pat, etc. You guys helped all along the way and I'm happy to say 6 years later she's still alive and well... so what kind of life expectancy can we expect? She was caught in '02, likely born in '01, so 7 years old. She does still hybernate and I was afraid to check on her a couple of times this winter/spring, but she's doing great! Thanks again for all of your educated help with her way back when!!!

btw, if it matters, I really think she's a he at this point, but we've always called her she...

Just thought I'd share an updated pic, too. This is our baby today. Oh, and the thought of him/her actually being a ribbon snake has crossed my mind... thoughts? Too thin? Feed more? Really is a ribbon? She's active and I feed her whenever she(he?) seems to be hunting for food which tends to be once or twice a week. I'm still giving her mostly pinkies with some fish occasionally. She gets two pinkies at a time probably every 4 or 5 days. The fuzzies seem too big for her tiny head/mouth but I haven't tried in a while. I do have one in the freezer tho. Thanks again...

It does look more like a ribbon. 6 years - Good job!!!

Life expectancy varies, depending on the care. a decade or more is not unheard of.

Kind regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
our critters

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1.2.9 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garter Snakes
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - common Garter - Princess
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua"
0.1.10 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snakes
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
0.1.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER" CB
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
1.2.0. Feline"Felix" "Kaja" & "Silver"
0.1.0. calico RAT
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

that is a ribbon snake and the weight looks good.
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2 tham radix
1 Chicago Tham s. semifasciatus
2 elaphe vulpina
1 gray tiger sallie
4 Aphonopelma hentzi
2 G rosea
1 Haplo minax

Thanks guys. I always thought she may be a ribbon. She just didn't follow all the characteristics of a ribbon back then. Was easy to feed, easy to switch to pinkies, etc. but she never bulked up like I expected a garter to. She was only about 12 inches long when we got her, so she's grown tremendously, but just never put on weight...lol... now I know why! A decade, huh? Cool! I won't be so worried about her when I don't see her for a while next winter

To be honest, I'm not at all convinced that's a ribbon.

- The lateral stripe is in the second and third scale rows, the ribbons have it in the third and fourth.

- There are the black markings on the supralabials, which ribbon snakes specifically lack.

- There's the small white bar in front of the eye, that really stands out on the ribbon snakes. The head's coloration should have a lot more contrast than that, if it was a ribbon.

The least conclusive piece of "evidence" against it being a ribbon, is that it is willing to take pinkies. It's usually not something that ribbons will do without a lot of "training". Was it easy or hard to get it to take pinkies?

But it's very similar to the ribbon snakes otherwise, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that it's a hybrid. Any chance it could be a Texas garter snake (T. sirtalis annectens)? Where was it caught? The lateral stripes rule out the plains garter and the ribbons and the dorsal stripe color rules out practically all other species. The Texas garter, which does have a dorsal stripe with that color, has the lateral stripe in that exact scale row.
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0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis (CB'05)
0.2 Thamnophis elegans vagrans (CB'07)
0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia (CB'07)

Stephan, thanks for your input. I went over all of the field guides, counting scales, etc back in 2002 and came to the same conclusion you did, but don't remember now exactly why. It was caught in Northern California, on the border of Sacramento and Placer Counties, in or around a little greenbelt creek. It was easy to switch to pinkies. She vigorously ate earthworms and rosy red minnows prior to that. The local pet store was out of frozen pinks so the first pinky was live, scented with a rosy red minnow, and she took it the first time offered. I think I scented one or two thawed frozen pinks after that but that was it. She's been on frozen thawed pinkies ever since. After getting her environment set up correctly she's been very easy to feed/care for. I've actually spent the last hour or so looking for on line pics confirming that she's a ribbon and still haven't found anything definitively like her in pics. As long as she's healthy it's not a huge deal, but I would love to know what she is! Thanks!

Using the below guide and the calphotos page my best guess would be t.elegans elegans or mountain garter? Here's a close up picture of her head taken in 2002. I am really curious now and can take more pictures if you'd like.

Key to California Garters

Yes, I think you are right. It pretty much has to be T. elegans elegans, if it was caught in California. I think I see 8 supralabials as well, which is pretty typical for the species. There are no ribbon snakes in California, so that alternative is pretty much eliminated by now.
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0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis (CB'05)
0.2 Thamnophis elegans vagrans (CB'07)
0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia (CB'07)

You might want to consider joining thamnophis.com and ask the people there as well. It's a forum specialized in garters specifically.
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0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis (CB'05)
0.2 Thamnophis elegans vagrans (CB'07)
0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia (CB'07)

I agree that it's T. elegans elegans the mountain garter snake. Check out this page for some more pics: http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/t.e.elegans.html . The weight looks fine, males tend to stay slim.

-Alice

Alice, thanks for your confirmation and especially thanks for addressing the weight. I was a little worried about weight even though he seems healthy.

Guess I'll finally start calling him a him. We've suspected it for a long while now. lol