Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What information do you guys look for when purchasing "pure" boas?

How do you define locale specific?

Do permits and collection data matter?

Is reputation of the seller enough to go by?

How do you deal with the possibility of false papers?
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

Are morphs subject to different scrutiny?

Do you consider pure morphs for locale projects, or are they entirely separate?
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

Here's my rambling reply...lol...(I have a 3 yr old PLUS received about 3 phone calls while typing this...lol)

What information do you guys look for when purchasing "pure" boas? I look at the reputation of the breeder/seller as well as the appearance of the boa.

How do you define locale specific? I define locality by the origin/ancestry as well as the appearance. (ie - nicaraguan boas are from nicaragua & have certain look, hog island boas are from hog islands & also have a specific look, etc etc). This does not mean that it has to be wild caught directly from that location, but rather the founding stock/ancestry/genetic history/whatever you wish to call it could be traced to it if necessary.

Do permits and collection data matter? No...people could simply forge them anyway. Plus, some folks that started recognizing differences in locales may not have obtained data back when it was a smaller hobby decades ago. Plus, as private hobbyists, we are doubtfully going to be part of any re-introduction plan if the locality begins to decline into endangered status. Furthermore, collection of wild boas is sometimes done by locals in countries where they might simply want the money & do not necessarily care if a boa came from (for example) Corn Island, Bluesfield or some other place in that coastal region.

Is reputation of the seller enough to go by? It should be. There are many breeders with quality reputations & they do not have anything to gain by misrepresenting a boa.

How do you deal with the possibility of false papers?
Again, papers shouldn't be the sole reason to purchase a locality specific boa. It's similar to buying a het for something....if the breeder is reputable, will paperwork make it anymore heterozygous? My personal philosophy: If I'm looking for a boa from a specific locale, it should have the basic traits/characteristics of that locale AND the seller should be reputable & representing it properly.

Overall, when it comes to locality, if it looks like a duck and the reputable seller/breeder says its a duck...then that should be good. Should boas from breeders without CITES or export documents be worth less than boas from someone with paperwork? I don't think so...it's a personal preference. If I produce a document stating I have boas from Cayos Cochinos, should I sell their babies for more than the current going rate of Hog Island boas? Again, I don't think so...BUT people place value on things differently...so once again it comes down to personal preference.
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Sincerely, Jason
www.NortheastSnakes.com
NortheastSnakes@verizon.net

How do you define locale specific ?

Generally based on the country of export unless credible more specific collection data is provided. It almost go's without saying that at times it can be next to impossible to tie a specific look with a specific locale. As is commonly known specific locale titles often involve the nearest reference point to the actual spot of collection or something more generalized such as a regional title.

Do permits and collection data matter?

I think in today's world a piece of paper means more then the animal itself to many people. As far as collection data that depends on who's providing the data . The first time paperwork became a question for me in regards to a locality boa was in the late 80's early 90's involving clouded boas . Having the necessary collecting data proved very useful .

Is reputation of the seller enough to go by?

If you've been around the block that question answers itself. Since reptiles has become a money making venture and a very competitive one. Reputation has become as much a tool as a character trait . Tools are often varied in the ways their used. Example : Roatan firebelly .

How do you deal with the possibility of false papers?

Again experience. One of my sayings about the reptile business is ,
The lies are easy to find . It's the truth that's elusive.

At times it can be tough to impossible to discredit phony paperwork . A lack of paperwork does not always indicate the animal in question is not authentic . Real world knowledge is the best way to deal with this issue. By that I mean understanding what the realities of the situation are and who is saying what.

Ernie Eison
Westwoodreptiles.com

It should be emphasized that there is no real difference in the genetic processes underlying artificial and natural selection Indeed, many evolutionary biologists view domestication as a type of natural selection and adaptive change that occurs as organisms are brought under the control of human beings. Swallow JG, Garland T. (2005).

LOL That REALLY made my day.

Thanks Ernie.

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>>...... Tools are often varied in the ways their used. Example : Roatan firebelly .
>>
>>
>>

Well said Ernie,
Strange how that paperwork question got raised just shortly after we talked about that :-
Excellent reference for the TOOL!

>>Ernie Eison
>>Westwoodreptiles.com
>>It should be emphasized that there is no real difference in the genetic processes underlying artificial and natural selection Indeed, many evolutionary biologists view domestication as a type of natural selection and adaptive change that occurs as organisms are brought under the control of human beings. Swallow JG, Garland T. (2005).
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TnK

good points. you mentioned cloud boas, do you have any or know of any still in the US? I have talked to a number of people that had them back in the day but none of them still had any or know of any still in the US. same goes for the orophias and melanogaster (i know it no longer a species). I loved love to find some or even just to hear that they are still breeding pairs in the US.

I do know of at least one person with a female Orophias. But I don't believe they wanted their name to be public with that. They can come forward if they choose.

As for Nebulosa, I heard someone in Ohio did have some, but never got validation.

There are a few breeders of both in Europe.
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Gilbert Boas
The Boa List!

I talked to one of the people that was on the collection trip for the Bronx zoo that brought back the us orophais. he said that 2 gravid females where brought in but that one died before giving birth and the other passed away before she reproduced again. he worked with them for awhile before selling them. he said that many of the babies never made it to adult hood and that the sexes where very lop sided. I think i know what female your talking about. and she might very while be the last one state side. if there are still clouded boas here i would love to see some pics.

About 5 years ago I did alot of reading about the
Clouded Boas (Boa Nebulosa)and how they were collected.
One article mentioned how they all gathered up in the
hills by the hot spots and in little over hanging rock
shelfs.The natives call them a Native word for little dog
or dog head if I remember.I think there really is only one
single fem here left,its a shame.Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

One of the mystery's is where did all the Clouded boas go ? My guess is that one by one they just dissipated from a lack of interest. For a brief time there was a fair number around. After the first couple runs there really wasn't any interest in them, in all honesty nobody was beating down the door from the start. At that time the " IT " crowd was all about womas and blackheads. Boelen's were also starting to float in. I sold my last Clouded's at the All Ohio show in maybe 92. Another guy had a few babies at that show but I can't remember who. I heard there might be a guy in Ohio with some and I'm sure there's a few in Germany so I would think some might be headed back this way. I thought they were pretty interesting.

Ernie Eison

Nature, like the breeder, introduces differential success. Intelligence is not needed, and specialized knowledge is not needed - all the breeder needs to do is let those animals or plants which have specific properties breed. This is what nature does too. Thomas Kettenring

Westwood Acres Reptile Farms Inc.
Ft Myers Fl. 33905
Ph 239 910 0896
Fax 239 334 1817
westwoodreptiles.com