Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Once in this forum, I read about a man who had raised sibling kingsnakes together in a large enclosure. They were all the same size, and were all fed together. He claimed that they all got along well, and that they never quarreled. He even included a photo that startled readers.

All the official literature says to NEVER mix kingsnakes, and I'm inclined to agreee - usually. (I've heard the horror stories from breeders.)

I have two hatchlings of the same size. I'd like to mix them in a 60-gallon vivarium with 7 major hide spots. Part of me wants to try, at least while supervised. Part of me screams" "No! Even if you rush them to water to separate them in case of attack, one may hurt the other."

Has anyone EVER mixed their kingsnakes? Is it ALWAYS a mistake?

>>> "Part of me screams" "No!"

I would strongly suggest that you go with your above thought!
If you'd rather be missing one some day, go with your other thought.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I raised two young male kingsnakes - they did not try to eat each other.

Turtle Bay (natural history museum here in Redding) has a large enclosure with four or five adult cal kings - so far they have not had any canibalism.

That doesn't mean it can't happen - but ...
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I decided my old sig was too big.

It's like the junkie who's brain screams NO! to the idea of mixing his heroin with other drugs. He reasons it's fine because he's done it before.You know how that often ends up.
Or playing russian roulette. Your brain screams NO! but since you have played and survived the last time, what the heck. And you know how that often ends up.
Why in the world would you want to take the chance??????

Those were some absolutely PERFECT comparisons!.

Just knowing that there's a fair possibility of it happening, is all it should take........period!

I don't really understand the big dilemma here, it's an absolute "no-brainer" to me.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

...but I wouldn't do it with my "prize" animals.

ive done it and still do with many of my adult kings. kings are oportunistic eaters meaning they eat anything they can overpower and consume including other snakes but it does not mean they purposely hunt other snakes exclusvely. baby kings have a drive to get to adult size asap! realize in nature the smaller you are the more likely you are to be food for another predator. for this reason its often young growing kings resort to canibalizing(consume,grow,consume,grow) dont get me wrong adults do also after all a meal is a meal is a meal especially if your hungry. but, kept in the right conditions fed heavily through the growth stages i see no problem, but on that note it (canibalization) does happen so...
hopefully FR will chime in
,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Yes, its no problem and in fact, it seems strange and odd that people think they do not get along. At least to me.

If you would just stop and think about it, You know, forget what you THINK you know and take a third party view of this.

There are no cubicules in nature, if kingsnakes ate other kingsnakes routinely, there were be no or very few kings out there. They HAVE to get along or they would not be in exsistance. How and why you ask.

I know I know, but but but kingsnakes, well I lived in New Orleans, and I am using that area because it envolves eastern type snake eating kings. By my house there was this abandoned old house, with tin and boards and all such. Of course it was covered in vines and all manner of plants. On spring days if it was not too hot, you could walk down the driveway(what was left of it) and see speckled kings all over, sometimes two or three together, if you flipped the tin or boards, you could find way more. Heck, there was also lots of ratsnakes, gardersnakes, canebrakes, milksnakes and blackracers there too.

The point is, I saw the specks consume other snakes, but never there own type. In fact, I have never found a kingsnake of the same species, in a kingsnake stomach. Oh don't get me wrong, I am sure, no, positive it happens, but WHY is the point.

So in the field, finding getulus kings together was common. Finding pyros and thayeri in numbers together was common. Ruthvens in dense colonies, common. Yet, in captivity, you cannot do that because they eat eachother. How odd.

When I was young, I did not know kings ate their own kind, so for the first 20 or so years and a mulitude of generations, I kept and bred kings in groups.(still do) What you say? GROUPS. Hey I did not know they were cannibils with bones in their noses.

As the years passed, I did find out if you were lax on your husbandry, you could strave them into eating eachother. But you really had to starve them.

I also found out that they bonded in both groups and pairs. That is, if given the choice, the same female would breed the same male, year after year. That is, IF GIVEN THE CHOICE. Seen it in captivity and see it in nature, ALL THE TIME.

It took years to figure out how they bonded in the first place. But after a little thought(which most REFUSE to do here) and some experiments, it was obvious.

When snakes hatch or lizards for that matter, they spent time in a chamber or nest. They normally stay there until they shed. During that time, they clump up, that is, they coil together. This occurs with rattlesnakes too, and they are not hatched. They are born. With rattlesnakes, the mother normally stays with the offspring until at LEAST after the first shed, and sometimes longer. I have seen this with pyros, but most egg layers are hard to view without interrupting the whole thing. Rattlesnakes are easy. A side note, once a friend found a pyro nest, with 6 gravid adults, 17 eggs, and a 8 hatchlings. In one spot. hmmmmmmmmmm that indicates a whole lot. What does this tell you?????? of course he destroyed that nest. I have seen the same thing, not so clearly, but with the same contents, you know, many gravid females in one spot with lots of different groups of hatchlings emerging at different times.

So why do they stay together? Why not just bolt like sea turtles. You know, hatch and boogy??????

My guess is, at the time of hatching, they form a scent bond with their clutchmates, and their mother or father(seen this only a very few times)

If you think about this, it makes lots and lots of sense. With no laws in snake society, its not a good idea to run about introducing yourself to your murderer, is it? So if all other kings eat you, what a rough world that would be. In fact, I find it odd that kingsnakes could grow up, if other kings ate them. Get it????? what easier food item then your own babies, heck, you even know where they are. Are you getting any of this? They must have some manner of a mechanism to maintain exsistance. I get it, they do not eat their own. They only eat the "others" Which means in snake talk, they consider any snake not in their own group, the others. Remember, they do not use genus and species, to animals its us, or them. End of that story.

So, onward and forward.

You can raise kings together without problem. But if you introduce another hatchling from another clutch, hmmmmmmmmmmm its most likely a food item, even with western kings.

But, so many of you have had kings eat eachother. Well that one is easy, your not all that smart(to their natural ways). Remember, no natural snake feeds of a schedule. They feed when they are hungry. And under normal conditions, they have NO problem finding food. Its kinda rare to find skinny wild snakes, and they have parasites too.

To make it a little clearer, they look for food as soon as they can swallow more. They do not wait four days after they poop, or eveyother wednesday, or twice a month or WHAT THE HECK, people are nuts. They eat when they are hungry, just like YOU. And just like you, they do not get hungry in the same about of time. Different then you, they can and do change their metabolism, so they can go long periods without food, or increase their metabolism and run in high gear to consume and digest food daily. They do this to take advantage of prey windows. You know, lots of seasonal nestlings of birds, rodents, eggs, young lizards, bursts of frogs, etc etc. You do know, they cannot wait a week or ten days between meals during a nesting season for their prey??? don't you. Nestlings do not WAIT, once they become adult and aware, the bloody things are hard to catch.

So yes, wild snakes have schedules, but nothing like what we normally give them. Soooooooooo the results we normally get are nothing like what they really should have.

So of course somewhere in here, I will answer your question. So heres the answer.

Yes, you can keep kings in groups. But you need to understand what kings/snakes are, and understand their needs.

So in order to do so, you should raise them from babies together(really helps but not exactly necessary) and two, do not strave the bloody things or they will eat eachother, just like most other animals including mice, rats, and people. Thanks for listening, hahahahahaha Cheers

Ladies and gentlemen professionals should only attempt such daring feats. Do not attempt this at home as accidental ingestion of a prized animal by its cage mate may result.

Yeah Tony, it really doesn't matter to me in the very least if it's been done before either without incident by some people, or thousands of people for that matter, The ONLY thing that needs to be remembered here, is just as the others mentioned, it's a calculated risk if someone chooses to do so, plain and simple.

I like Howie's examples the VERY best though!..LOL!

Now if I had a Lamborghini(very doubtful though), and parked it in a cramped McDonald's parking lot, and it managed NOT to get scratched or dented by some idiot on THAT particular given day, I don't think it would make much sense(or be very wise) to continue doing that......geee, I guess maybe odds have something to do with it..LOL!

This thread really doesn't need to continue on ridiculously like that last one did, for the very basic, simple fact, that it "CAN" happen,.......know what I mean?, what's really here to debate???......hahahahha!

Maybe I'll do some field studies on why people park their sports cars in crowded parking lots with shopping carts everywhere,.....it's the exact same principle that's being brought up here... AGAIN!,.........I'll post my parking lot stats later on after I compile enough data....LOL!

anyhow, later Tony!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

C'mon Doug, Ameron asked has it ever been done, should it ever be done? You answered, let everyone contribute, it's a yes or no answer, not an opinionated poll. If we are to respect each others' answers, we should just stick to the question, not let it degrade.
My answer is I currently have a pair of PRIZED splendida, long term F1 captives from w.c. parents living together, 2 pairs of PRIZED thayeri cohabitating, 3 pair of PRIZED w.c. holbrooki cohabitating, a pair of PRIZED alterna cohabitating,and a pair of SUPER PRIZED white walled speckled kings sharing living quarters. The reason I don't worry about these animals is I raise my own mice now and can feed them tons, and the ww specks are sibs, the w.c. were collected together under the same boards. I don't like the way the brooksi manage themselves though so I would have to say I don't have any faith with them as they aren't related, and those eastern types are so uncivilized when it comes to feeding time, just look at all the finger food posted on here,lol! I see a lot of sense in what FR says, even if some don't. I tried these arrangements some two years ago, some just last week, so far everything is good. Hey Tom, remember the pair of splendida you gave me? They were together then for breeding and they have been together since. And the ww specks are too high dollar an item to do this? I say no because I feel I know them well enough. I do believe that one should understand what Frank said about feeding enough and think Tony is wise in saying no novice should try this at home, lol! Oh yeah, a pair of P.g. meahlmorrim and a pair of Mexican bairdi to boot, but they have not had the cannibal stigma applied to them, but I am certain they would if starved!
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Todd Hughes

Todd, yes kings can be kept together.
Successful cohabitation is best done with similar sized adults.
Unless you enjoy the task of separating two kings from the same prey item, feed them separately.
Look for signs of stress. If it's observed separate them.
Younger kings tend to be more opportunistic feeders than adults and are more likely to see a weaker cage mate as a meal.
They don't have to be starving to eat a cage mate.

My view is that on a public forum where there is a wide range of experience one should be a bit more specific on topics like this. I simply think FR underplays the risk of keeping kings together. I've kept kings together too but only as similar sized adults and at that I didn't feed them together.

This is just my opinion but observing wild kings in an aggregation during breeding season or finding multiple kings under a board where they are digesting meals or preparing to shed is quite different from keeping them in an enclosure where there is no escape if one happens to switch to foraging mode. Some field observations have relevance to captive care while others either do not or are misinterpreted.

You wonder about behavior, yet, your protect(fence) yourself off from learning about their REAL inherent reptile behavior.

You then segragate levels of keepers, only advanced this or beginer that. If there was a common and decent understanding of kingsnakes ACTUAL behavior, then beginers could practice keeping them together as well as advanced.

In captivity two major things contribute to cannibilism,

1. The raising ofindividuals singlerly and never letting them "socialize. No offense, but this does not work with chickens, mice, dogs, or any animal. They pretty much should bond with their own type if that is what your hoping to breed with. Of course, you can do all manner of work, you know, two or more crappy cages, instead of one. To accomplish reproduction without behavior.

2. starvation, the practice of waiting until an individual is super hungry is dangerous. Of course this is again true with all types of animals, yes, even mice eat eachother if starved for even a short time.

Those above two things are not very complicated or hard to remember. I would not think that is advanced and even a beginer could understand it. Maybe I have to much faith in human intelligence, Naw, I think most of us(including me) are dumb as a stone with it comes to ACTUAL realistic behavior in reptiles. At least I am willing to learn.

That you do not agree, is perfect. Your allowed that. That you make the remarks you do, only reflects on your personal insecurities. Cheers

"starvation, the practice of waiting until an individual is super hungry is dangerous. Of course this is again true with all types of animals, yes, even mice eat each other if starved for even a short time."

Under the same general range of husbandry practices where rat, king, pine, gophers and bull snakes thrive, kings will sooner cannibalize than the other genera. Pointing out different metabolic rates might seem obvious reason for this except that pituophis generally have higher metabolic rates than kings. If nearness to starvation or husbandry practices were the root cause, it would be pits that have the bad reputation not kings. This to me shows that kings DO have a greater tendency towards eating a cage mate whether socialized or not. Given that kings are generally ophiophagus anyway I think the conclusion that a risk is there is rather obvious. Now, is risk often overstated? You bet, but it is real nonetheless and downplaying that risk before such a broad audience is imprudent.

Yes kings eat other snakes. That is not in question, but it does not change anything else I mentioned.

You can starve to death a gopher or ratsnake and it most likely will not eat its cage mate. BUT YOU SHOULD NOT STARVE THEM EITHER. Thats the point sir, you should not starve kings or ratsnakes or pits, or anything captive. Who cares if they will or will not eat eachother. Does this only make sense to me. Or do you enjoy causing snakes to reach starvation before feeding them. Or are you to busy(or other reasons) to actually feed more often?

To me this subject is funny. Its like your saying, I like doing it wrong(at least limited), I like not understanding the actual behavior of snakes, And yes, its more work, but I like it. Is that what your saying???????

About feeding a group cage, hmmmmmmmmm its harder you say, whow, how hard is it to pick one up and dig it in a bucket of mice, then set it down and do it again with another individual. I am sure I am wrong about this, but I thought is was suppose to be some work, but kinda a work of joy and love. I did not know, it was suppose to be easy and of no effort.

All things we do should have a focal point, in this case its normal natural behavior that these snakes live in groups/pairs/colonies, that "normally" means they do not consume eachother. Yes, normally, I would imagine that starving wild kings would indeed eat eachother. But that is not normal. I thought our job was to keep them as normal as possible. Am I wrong again?

So why not learn what normal is. Or better yet, why not let other people that are actually interested in these snakes normal behavior, do so?

You know, instead of how to control them in some unnatural way, let them learn what these wonderful snakes actually do. Again I may be wrong, but at least some of us admire these wonderful creatures for what they are, not how we control them.

Remember, you can do what you want and no one will do anything to you. Or even think bad of you.

But your constantly trying to limit others from thinking or practicing husbandry thats different then yours. Sir, why do you do that? Remember, this thread was not brought up by you or mentioned you. This I find an interesting HUMAN behavior. Cheers

Frank I'm not sure when you started wearing that signiture hat of yours but I suspect it was not early enough. Cheers!

Your not saying a thing about snakes or various ways to keep them.

So then I assume its not about snakes, is it? Cheers

yeah but SOME people cant be told ANYTHING about snakes todd, personally i feel its better to be silent and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt roflmao
,,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

First off, my sarcastic examples were to basically "illustrate" that it is a calculated risk whenever multiple kings are housed with one another, nothing more, nothing less. Obviously they don't attack each other every chance they get, and they have been kept together by a good number of people without incidence. On the other hand, there have been many people that have had problems, or have seen strong potential for problems, and there of course are many reasons why, or even why not, or am I missing something I was "told"?

It really wouldn't matter to me personally if you kept every single snake you owned in one big box, but the fact here is that I never said anything nasty towards Ameron, or ANYONE about this, and if it seemed that way, then I sincerely apologize, I just agreed with a few, and voiced my opinion on it(yes, sarcastic at times), then you felt the need to jump in and make smart,derogatory statements directly towards me personally. I thought we were past that, but apparently I was wrong.

If you think have some big snake knowledge or some information that I'm not aware of regarding snakes, please, by all means,.....do share, I'm all ears.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

It's all just lively bannter if you ask me. Its boring when we agree.

Sometimes as proven here, it even goes far beyond disagreeable, sarcastic, banter, and becomes un-provoked nasty rudeness.

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Todd,.....I was only trying to convey a strong point, and it might have seemed a little excessive at times, so if I offended anyone in the process, I do apologize. I realize certain sarcasm is hard to identify sometimes.

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

The only problem I ever have when I come on here is that we all seem to not understand each other all the time! I know internet facing is not face to face and a lot is lost in translation sometimes. I just don't understand how any one person can have all the answers all the time. I do understand that experience is valued over most other principles here so I find it hard to believe that any poster asking a question gets more than a single reply(opinion) from any one person. We may not agree all the time but sometimes it appears there are agendas and some bashing over past issues. We have been over all this time and time again. To do the same thing over and over and expect different results is the definition of insanity! There will be pure breeders, cross breeders, hybridizers and people that come on here with a snake they got from a pet store that was labeled X and may or may not be that, people that believe a getula is a getula and people who believe each subspecies is different enough to warrent that understanding. So with all the different mindsets, we will have various answers to the questions, but in the end, it is up to the individual to make their own choice based on all the info they have gathered, and while a lot is good here, I would hope the research even further to make those choices. I don't do hybrids or crosses but I bet I have a few dubious animals in my collection regardless of my research. It is a matter of choice for me, but all my w.c. locality animals were collected by me, even from intergrade zones. Some people may have a problem with that, but I represent localities as found. But if I were to mix 'n' match so to speak, state your preference and let it go, you know who not to buy from, lol! I do not profess any special knowledge Doug, other than what I have found to be true in my snake room and field observations, and since they are my own, they are special to me and me alone unless someone asks for it. Then it may become special to someone else. I wouldn't want anyone to lose an animal over some advice given by me, so I rarely give it. I didn't tell him it was okay, I said this is what is going on here. I have many other kings kept separately because I bought singles. When they mature, I may socialize them beyond breeding introductions but only under my conditions. I rambled and I apologize, and also don't want bad feelings, just don't like to see anyone "jumped on" for offering there point of view. it is all info to be sifted by the people who want it, use at your own discretion!!! LOL!

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Todd Hughes

The first time I put that pair together the female went to eat the male immediately! Just one of those things, but it did happen instantly. She let go after a light bonk on the head and then they just hung out.... I hope you get lots of eggs this season Todd!
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

Thanks Tom, back atcha! Pastor's female is due any day!
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Todd Hughes

Yee-Hah!!!!!!
Great news Todd!!!!!!

Pastor Pat

Thanks, Pat, she is absolutely the biggest splendida I have ever seen! Looks to be entering a shed phase now, the first hookup I witnessed was on April 6th.
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Todd Hughes

I often keep pairs together for 3-10 days at a time. I can say that for all my Kings and Milks. Especially this year since i have been extremely busy and have not witnessed as many copulations as I usually see by now.
Crazy as it seems, and I am not recommending this....but I even feed Kings together in the same cage. I put a pile of mice in a cage and they both eat their fill. Occasionally I see a tug of war but they seem to know the difference between the food and each other. I know I feed my snakes a lot more than the average keeper seems too but that is why I don't worry too much about them eating each other.
I could honestly say the less I worry about things like this the happier I am. Many keepers seem to stress out over every little thing. To date, I have not lost a single snake to caanibalism and have seen very few signs of aggression.
On another note I have seen a snake constrict her mate with intent to devour a few times.... and I separated them, they attacked each other a few times and then suddenly........bred.
Them crazy snakes....you gotta love em
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

" I don't worry 'bout nothin' 'cause worryin's a waste of my ^%$^# time....."

-axl

if folks learn not to henpeck themselves to death over things it does remain an enjoyable hobby for a long time.

daveb

Folks worry about too much. I also dump a pile of thawed mice into a cage with a pair of adult easterns and let them feed. Now I am in the room maintaining the collection while this is going on, but I have not had any problems feeding or maintaining them in this manner. They clearly know the difference between each other and the food and because I don't starve them first, they eat without incident. I agree with Frank that most of these problems regarding keeping kings together is husbandry related.

Will

"On another note I have seen a snake constrict her mate with intent to devour a few times.... and I separated them, they attacked each other a few times and then suddenly........bred."

So what do you attribute this behavior to? Where they starving (under your care I would doubt that! LOL)? How would this have ended up if you weren't around to intereceed?

I've left my coastals together for as much as week at a time with no ill effect but just this year I had a female het coastal grab my "prized" F3 hypo male and was preparing to have a meal of him. Personnally I'm glad I "worried" enough to check on them. BTW neither animal was starving. Both were fat, sassy and subject to the same husbandry that has been in place for years with no adverce effect.

The same thread, different month. I think I am going to start a furniture forum, but even keeping certain furniture together will clash. So the risk applies to inanimate objects too, doesn't it? But that is only if the furniture is not starving and is normal. CHAIRS!

Hey Howie!
I do think people should understand that keeping Kings in pairs or groups should not be considered the typical way to keep them. I just realized many people who come into the hobby get the fever and buy a few snakes in a short period of time, they often don't know much about snakes period yet. Seems they can afford the snake itself but not more caging? They ask " can I keep these together?" and even with Corns I tell them I do not recommend it. Seems a lot of breeders spend a lot of time observing their snakes....like nerds basically [myself included] and we get a feel for which snakes seem more comfortable in the presence of other snakes.
I have seen snakes introduced to their mates that took off like a missle to get away from them. There's also the awesome sight of two prized animals that are introduced that don't even move or flick their tounges and just sit there. Gotta love that haha!
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

Tom,
I think your response has shown the most insight of any on this thread. This question is asked again and again by new snake owners, so the answers they get should keep in mind that these are mostly beginners.
It seems too that most of the people who ask this question want to set up elaborate vivariums in which they can enjoy multiple animals simultaneously living in harmony. Not that there's anything wrong with that. People tend to anthropomorphize their pets, reptiles included, and feel that they would be happier with a cage mate.
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1.1.0 Hondurans Het Amel
1.1.0 Hondurans Anery, Het Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo
0.2.0 Pueblans
1.0.0 Pueblan Hypo
1.0.0 Thayeri MSP
0.0.1 GBK Blair's Phase
1.0.0 California King
0.1.0 California King Blue-eyed Blond
0.0.1 Speckled King WC
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet
0.1.0 Ball, Normal
0.0.1 Sulcata
0.1.0 Girlfriend, Caucasius Mexicana, Fiancee Phase

..feng shui???
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I don't know? But one thing I have noticed is if one snake intends to devour another [here from what I have seen] they go after the other snake immediately, withing 5 seconds of introduction.
I usually pair up a bunch of snakes at the same time and then spend some time in the snake room as some lock up very quickly.
Not long ago I posted pics of a Speckled that launched out of its cage to bite me. It bit everything in front of it like a maniac and I had some mice laying on the table next to me. I had to throw mice at that snake to get it to hold onto something so I could pick it up, it didn't stop going nuts til it had a mouse. Matter of fact it was bulging with eggs which it laid a few days later. Sometimes my well fed Kings still act as if they hadn't eaten in weeks. That's one of the reasons I love working with them, I hate fussy feeders.
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

Hey there Tom, long time no chat. I'm already looking forward to Daytona.You made some good observations, and better stories still. Let's stop worrying about mixing Kings and more about mixing drinks-something I have more field experience in.

Gee Tom, sounds like you're saying things aren't always black and white. Imagine that!

Agree that attempts to make a mate a meal generally happens early on but this year it happend about two or three hours in! It doesn't happen enough to really see any patterns but in this case both were first time breeders which is were I've noted other breeding irregularities. Older proven breeders just go right at it while younger and first time animals are often intimidated by each other. In this regard I somewhat think FR might be onto something. I doubt that its natural that wild snakes never run into each other outside of breeding season. That captive animals hatch and go into a box not to have contact with another snake untill they are sexually mature, I think is safe to say, is completely unnatural.

In previous years I spent a lot of time observing my collection far more than the average keeper. Many hours a day every single day 9 months out of the year. It caught up with me and my family, and it was not that I wasn't spending enough time with them. It was the fact I barely slept! I may be Nokturnel Tom but man i like to sleep at night too!
I was terrified the first few times I put Kings together. After seeing what they usually do I felt more and more comfortable leaving them unmonitored. I was nuts the first few years I bred snakes. I'd tell my wife, I can not go to bed! I have Kings paired up and I need to be there when they seperate! Haha! Well that gets old quick, so though I just don't recommend it, I leave my Kings together a lot. I feed my stuff tons of food, many keepers I know do not, especially newbies. I have talked ot many people who leave Kings together most of the time but they also would not recommend it. Must be something you do after getting to know your animals. I have a 4 foot Sulfur Lav male and a female under 3 foot and half his girth. Those worried me, but wouldn't you know it. She flagged him immediately and though I stink at feeling follicles she definitely has something going on right now. She's opaque now, I will introduce them after she sheds a time or two and hope for some eggs.
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

blackracers with kings & milk and other snakes? I'm sure you saw kings eat other snakes but did you ever see the racers & milk eat other snakes??

I missed the last debate on this but will chime in here. I have (and do) keep large, voracious eastern kingsnakes together for several months at a time, or longer. In fact, I am just now preparing to separate my GA easterns, NJ easterns and Outer Banks kings because the females are nesting now. I'm more concerned about the males eating the eggs than their mates. I've never had problems doing this with adults. Now obviously, I'd never keep keep them together when one or both animals are ravenously hungry, as I'd be asking for problems. But in my situation, I've never had problems with keeping adult pairs of common kings (getula) together for many months at a time.

I will admit however to losing some hatchling animals to cannibalism in the incubator or egg box right after the clutch hatched, but this was is a rare occurance. It has happened a handful of times in my 25 plus years of keeping kings and I am not about to inucbate each egg separately, so I really don't worry about that, if it happens, it happens.

I don't keep young snakes together of any species, so I have no experience with cagemate aggression in growing animals. I have however, had young kings escape from their cages, enter another snake's cage and eat the inhabitant.

I think that a keeper's experience level and knowledge of his/her individual animals plays a big role in whether they will have problems or not. I would never recommend to a noob to keep his/her kings together only because the person may not be able to interpret the behaviors that may precede a problem.

Hey, they can and do eat other snakes, so its just another calculated risk that an observant keeper must take into account. Good luck.

Will

Will I think my experience mirrors yours. I've kept adult OBX together as well as goini for long periods of time but only as similar sized adults. Even so I seperated them during feedings. The only reason I think this really worked is that there was no size disparity, they had enough room to give each other some space, they were well fed and seperated during feeding.

I have a few kings that were given to me because they ate thier mates. 2 Cal kings and 2 mole kings come to mind.
Yet I have had no troubles with them at all when I put them in with a mate. Maybe i keep them a bit different? I don't know.
I make sure they're ready to breed, have eaten recently, and I put the "offenders" in the other's cage rather than vise-versa.
Now I don't normally keep them together all year mainly because at feeding time it can get tense and I feel like I have to watch them all...I don't have that much time to watch dozens of snakes finish their meals.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I'm kinda surprised nobody chimed in with the "if one gets sick and you don't know which one" and "if there's odd poo you won't be able to tell who did it.." lectures. I got those when I was thinking about housing my new cornsnakes together.
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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Florida Kingsnake (Eddie Gein)
0.0.1 Okeetee Cornsnake
0.0.1 Cornsnake
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Black Cat (Shadowfax)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan) (Deceased )
1.0 Tennessee Walking Horse (Durango)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)

Holly!,....was it anyone I know????(no sarcasm there, huh??)..LOL!!!

Yes,..THAT TOO Holly,...very good point!, everyone(including me) was so caught up in adding their two-cents on the other issue, that we totally forgot about that one......you go girl!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Hehehe, I *never* use sarcasm. Well, you guys did bring up good points that I hadn't considered. I was just surprised they weren't mentioned here.

I'm starting to think maybe I should start a thread about whether or not I should keep my kingsnake in the same cage as a ferret. Hey, they both have serpentine bodies, right?
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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Florida Kingsnake (Eddie Gein)
0.0.1 Okeetee Cornsnake
0.0.1 Cornsnake
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Black Cat (Shadowfax)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan) (Deceased )
1.0 Tennessee Walking Horse (Durango)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)

A friend of mine had both snakes and a ferret - that thing was always trying to get into the snake cage.
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I decided my old sig was too big.