Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Cross posted with the permission of Kingsnake:

Did you do your responsibility and respond to the inquiry sent out on the federal register regarding the "Injurious Wildlife Species; Review of Information Concerning Constrictor Snakes From Python, Boa, and Eunectes genera," dated 31 January 2008?

Did you? Today is the final day. To date only about 1200 have responded. This is a pathetic percentage of the people involved in our business. I know this is a minimal percentage of the people involved, because I have more than twice this many customers who have made purchases from me. I'm sure TONS of people involved in this enterprise have never purchased anything from me.

This particular first step at limiting our ability to keep, breed and sell Boas and Pythons is almost certainly doomed to failure. At least this first battle that is. But what many of you apparently do not get is this IS a shot across the bow. This is a way for those intent on bringing this hobby down to see what they are up against. And the fact that most of you sat back and did absolutely nothing, gives them encouragement and shows the government who is going to be harmed and or offended by making any changes to our ability to keep, breed and sell our Boas and Pythons.

The animal rights nuts are not going away. They are only going to position themselves so their attempts are as effective as possible. They do not have a leg to stand on when it comes to the science. However, they have willing accomplices to lie and deceive. They have come to ridiculous anti-scientific conclusions as is evidenced by the maps that Gordon Rodda and his cartoonist friends came up with. The Burmese Pythons now thriving in the Everglades, have not and will not even make it out of the state of Florida. They are not adapted to environments other than what they can find in the Everglades. Northern Florida is just too cold in the winter time. They will not move North without dying of respiratory problems. This is easy to scientifically prove and thankfully we have legit scientist types working on this issue on our behalf. A bit more than a week ago the Washington Post ran an article, on the front page, that was devoid of scientific facts and loaded with propaganda to scare the masses. This is a topic perfectly tailored for prime time. It is incumbent on each and every one of us to do what we can. However, this is essentially a political fight that will be fought on many fronts. The Scientific battle is perhaps the easiest one in my estimation and we will win. However, this is not going to come down to calm heads looking at the facts and coming to a logical conclusion. This is far more than that. The public relations tug of war is one heavily weighed against us already. There is a giant on the other side with that robe tied around his massive waist, and it's going to take not only our scientific contributors, but a concerted effort to educate the public about the reality of what we do. Ideally we need a much more visible presence of what we do in a positive light. Plus we need each and every one of us to participate in every specific part of this engagement. This is your responsibility. Yours and mine!

The political portion of this fight is what DEMANDS YOUR participation! We and YOU must be active in our efforts to prevent any limitation of our ability to keep, breed and sell these animals. This will not just take care of itself. This effort will be stronger WITH YOUR participation and support than it will without it. I personally have already spent a great deal of effort and money getting geared up to make a difference. Many have made far more of a specific contribution in time and money to fighting this fight than I have. There is going to be a greater effort, the specifics of which will be forthcoming very shortly. We are ALL in this together. We need every singe individual to participate at some level.

I personally would like to extend my gratitude to the following who have made tremendous efforts above and far beyond the call of duty on our behalf. Bob Ashley, David and Tracy Barker, Jeff Barringer, Bill Brandt, Brian Potter, Louis Sangermano, Andrew Wyatt and PIJAC. I would also like to thank each individual who had a part if the meeting in Chicago where the start of a movement to help protect each of us occurred about a month ago. I perceive those folks and each person who responds to the Inquiry as having done me and my family a personal favor and as such, I am grateful. Thank you. Most people are not aware of what is being done on the behalf of each and every one of us. Your participation is not only needed, but in my view, something each one should feel a compelling obligation to engage in.

Jeff Barringer has put together a great detailed instructional page on how to respond. Please, please please do this. Yes, it will take some time and effort to digest and complete. But each one must do their part. This is the earliest stages of a struggle that is not going to go away. We must be conscience of this fact and do the right thing. This is exactly the same as ignoring mites you find in one cage. Sure it's not a problem really, right? But mark my words, if we do not mount an effort to protect ourselves, we will not be protected. Sure it may take a long time for this to happen, but we need to stop this in it's tracks in exactly the same way as you can't let mites get out of hand. The sky is not falling today. I am not trying to be an alarmist about this. However, each of us make sure it doesn't.

The following is a link to the detailed instructions that kingsnake.com has posted which PIJAC has written for each one of us:

Kingsnake Instructions for a reply to Fish and Wildlife

There is strength in numbers. If you have not completed the survey or sent your information previously to PIJAC as I did, please please please do this today.
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Boaphile Home
All Original/Boaphile Plastics
The Boa Network

In addition to anything that we've done so far, we need to bring this issue before political candidates this year. All of us will have Congressional elections on the ballot. Some candidates will pay attention to letters and others won't. However, we need to let them know that our side of the issue is important. The reptile industry is important economically, and our freedoms are important as a matter of principle. Senate candidates are less likely to notice a few individual letters, but making our presence known to them has value as well.

To get more influence, we need to volunteer in political campaigns. We hate receiving political phone calls, so making them feels horrible. However, the parties remember the folks who do the dirty work. If you do these things, you're more likely to know elected officials or know people who would be willing to make a call on your behalf.

Finally, we need to start talking to people when they are running for local office. The regular-looking guy knocking on your door this fall to ask for your vote so that he can go to the state legislature or the city council is frustrated. He or she is frustrated because he's knocking on doors all day long and no one really wants to talk to him. He cares about the issues and the decisions being made, and he sees a steady stream of people who couldn't care less and are annoyed because he knocked on their door. If you speak respectfully and intelligently about these issues and show real interest instead of annoyed apathy, you have a chance to make a good impression. If he seems open to our position and you can help him, he will remember. The ones who are running for city council or state legislature today will often be the ones in Congress tomorrow. If we make a good impression now, we can start to mitigate problems later.

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

"The reptile industry is important economically, and our freedoms are important as a matter of principle."

our freedoms yaa ok like they care

economically, you get half the people in this industry to just pay some taxes on money made and maybe they will start to care but as it is now, why would the gov want to save an industry that doesnt pay crap for taxes, they know we are here they know theres ALOT of money here they also know they are not seeing it, the gov is a buisness like any other, just they thrive on tax revenues

Im lost as to why everyone thinks big brother really wants to help us, when they are not getting hardly any money from us, why does everyone think they want to invest money into, research, negotiating with us etc to write laws that are fair to us? I dont understand it
-----
I love my country but I'm scared to death of its government
Ya believe what you read cause it's all that we give ya
Cause all of history is written by winners
I'm engaged in a frenzy of mass self-destruction
I feed upon your famine to fuel my corruption
I'm wholeselling hatred and international incest
To carnivorous hyenas in a global theft fest
I've mastered the arts of death and foreign nations genocide
And those who turn on me commit national suicide

I'm the queen of the global dream
And I rule a declining nation
I sit and watch all the violent screams
From the throne of your desperation
W.A.S.P.

Name a single person who doesn't pay tax's . We're all Tax payers and the people who are involved with reptiles comprises a wide cross section of society. Everyone from business professionals to the kid that works part time at the grocery store. Your saying the Government knows there's money here and their not seeing it ? When people make money they spend money. That's what the Government knows . The money that is put into circulation via the exotic animal trade is diverse and effects a broad range of everyday society . This is a very important point that had to be made. The bottom line, when people spend money the government sees it. Private owners SPEND a lot of money.

It was also important that a large number of tax paying law abiding citizens keeping exotics who oppose unfounded and restrictive legislation took the time to voice their opinion .

Honesty it seems that the people who complain the most contribute the least. One thing is certain sitting in a corner whining about how unfair the world is will accomplish absolutely nothing. How can anyone be so paranoid as to think the USFW was trying to assemble some type of plot so that they could kick down the door in the middle of the night. I have nothing to hide............an nether do any of the hundreds of thousands of private owners who legally maintain reptiles and would like to defend their right to do so.

We were given an opportunity to speak up on our own behalf. Personally I have and will always stand up for myself regardless of it I think the odds are with me or not. I'd much rather do what I can and if I go down I'll go down swinging as oppose to playing the crybaby role.

Ernie Eison
Westwoodreptiles.com

IM not taking the cry baby roll just trying to make sense of why everyone seems to think the gov cares about us, as I said below our neighbors dont want us living on the same blocks our town halls bans us at the first mention of reptiles and our states pass all kinds of stupid [bleep] for some reason people still think the gov cares and wants to be fair to us

is it just false hope people are holding onto or is there something im not seeing?

and as far as the tax money thing go to any reptile show in the country at best people probally pay taxes on $100 for every 10k that goes through a show, ive been doing shows almost none stops since the early 90's so yes I have a very good handle on what is going on with the money going through these shows and my point is IM not the only one who sees it

>>Name a single person who doesn't pay tax's . We're all Tax payers and the people who are involved with reptiles comprises a wide cross section of society. Everyone from business professionals to the kid that works part time at the grocery store. Your saying the Government knows there's money here and their not seeing it ? When people make money they spend money. That's what the Government knows . The money that is put into circulation via the exotic animal trade is diverse and effects a broad range of everyday society . This is a very important point that had to be made. The bottom line, when people spend money the government sees it. Private owners SPEND a lot of money.
>>
>>It was also important that a large number of tax paying law abiding citizens keeping exotics who oppose unfounded and restrictive legislation took the time to voice their opinion .
>>
>>Honesty it seems that the people who complain the most contribute the least. One thing is certain sitting in a corner whining about how unfair the world is will accomplish absolutely nothing. How can anyone be so paranoid as to think the USFW was trying to assemble some type of plot so that they could kick down the door in the middle of the night. I have nothing to hide............an nether do any of the hundreds of thousands of private owners who legally maintain reptiles and would like to defend their right to do so.
>>
>>We were given an opportunity to speak up on our own behalf. Personally I have and will always stand up for myself regardless of it I think the odds are with me or not. I'd much rather do what I can and if I go down I'll go down swinging as oppose to playing the crybaby role.
>>
>>Ernie Eison
>>Westwoodreptiles.com
-----
I love my country but I'm scared to death of its government
Ya believe what you read cause it's all that we give ya
Cause all of history is written by winners
I'm engaged in a frenzy of mass self-destruction
I feed upon your famine to fuel my corruption
I'm wholeselling hatred and international incest
To carnivorous hyenas in a global theft fest
I've mastered the arts of death and foreign nations genocide
And those who turn on me commit national suicide

I'm the queen of the global dream
And I rule a declining nation
I sit and watch all the violent screams
From the throne of your desperation
W.A.S.P.

I'm not optimistic about the future of the hobby, but I don't agree with your view of it all. "We the people" are the government, at least in theory. If enough people voice their opinions, publicly expose the anti-reptile propoganda for what it really is, and help Joe Public overcome his irrational fears, then there's a glimmer of hope. I firmly believe that many of these anti-herp laws are passed in the first place because overall the herp community is not vocal, much less organized. And as far as educating the public, I believe that at this point in time, EVERY herp owner/breeder should do something to help "reptile haters" to overcome their fears, whether it be a presentation at a local school or simply showing the neighbors and explaining reality. All people see on TV these days is idiots chasing cobras, black mambas and giant pythons/anacondas, so it's no wonder people are afraid of snakes in general.

I don't think this is false hope. Might be a long shot, but it's not false hope.

There's no hope at all if we just give up because "the man" will beat us down. We are "the man."

Thanks,
Ed

>>IM not taking the cry baby roll just trying to make sense of why everyone seems to think the gov cares about us, as I said below our neighbors dont want us living on the same blocks our town halls bans us at the first mention of reptiles and our states pass all kinds of stupid [bleep] for some reason people still think the gov cares and wants to be fair to us
>>
>>is it just false hope people are holding onto or is there something im not seeing?
>>
>>and as far as the tax money thing go to any reptile show in the country at best people probally pay taxes on $100 for every 10k that goes through a show, ive been doing shows almost none stops since the early 90's so yes I have a very good handle on what is going on with the money going through these shows and my point is IM not the only one who sees it
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Name a single person who doesn't pay tax's . We're all Tax payers and the people who are involved with reptiles comprises a wide cross section of society. Everyone from business professionals to the kid that works part time at the grocery store. Your saying the Government knows there's money here and their not seeing it ? When people make money they spend money. That's what the Government knows . The money that is put into circulation via the exotic animal trade is diverse and effects a broad range of everyday society . This is a very important point that had to be made. The bottom line, when people spend money the government sees it. Private owners SPEND a lot of money.
>>>>
>>>>It was also important that a large number of tax paying law abiding citizens keeping exotics who oppose unfounded and restrictive legislation took the time to voice their opinion .
>>>>
>>>>Honesty it seems that the people who complain the most contribute the least. One thing is certain sitting in a corner whining about how unfair the world is will accomplish absolutely nothing. How can anyone be so paranoid as to think the USFW was trying to assemble some type of plot so that they could kick down the door in the middle of the night. I have nothing to hide............an nether do any of the hundreds of thousands of private owners who legally maintain reptiles and would like to defend their right to do so.
>>>>
>>>>We were given an opportunity to speak up on our own behalf. Personally I have and will always stand up for myself regardless of it I think the odds are with me or not. I'd much rather do what I can and if I go down I'll go down swinging as oppose to playing the crybaby role.
>>>>
>>>>Ernie Eison
>>>>Westwoodreptiles.com
>>-----
>>I love my country but I'm scared to death of its government
>>Ya believe what you read cause it's all that we give ya
>>Cause all of history is written by winners
>>I'm engaged in a frenzy of mass self-destruction
>>I feed upon your famine to fuel my corruption
>>I'm wholeselling hatred and international incest
>>To carnivorous hyenas in a global theft fest
>>I've mastered the arts of death and foreign nations genocide
>>And those who turn on me commit national suicide
>>
>>I'm the queen of the global dream
>>And I rule a declining nation
>>I sit and watch all the violent screams
>>From the throne of your desperation
>>W.A.S.P.

Nobody's is saying the government cares, in fact from the start I've said they don't care. Good or bad. When I use the word Government I'm talking about at the federal level in this instance . The only reason USFW is involved in this at all is because they were badgered into it.

Something to look at is past performance. Up until now we have seen little in the way of industry crushing legislation. Over the years some very strong and unsuccessful efforts have been made against us. Sometimes things don't go completely our way but it would be ridiculous to just roll over and assume " The man " is going to screw us. For someone to have not stepped up and voiced their opinion and concerns for fear of becoming a government target is paranoid foolishness. This type of attitude helps no one. In politics when someone says nothing it means they agree.

Many of the people behind this current ban proposal are the same ones who recently tried for an all out ban at the state level and failed. The state of Florida where the issue is at it's most relevant deemed that a total ban was unnecessary .That in itself is a reason for hope.

A lot of talk has surrounded the Rodda / Reed " maps " . While some may feel that these maps are a validation that the "government " is out to get us. My perspective is,

I believe that Reed / Rodda took it upon themselves to release these maps to the liberal environmental press . Naturally they were supported by their click but this does not mean everyone or anyone involved in the final process will endorse their findings . To the contrary their pseudo scientific over the top propaganda may have completely backfired on them.

For the most the part their use of a giant python invasion to promote their personal global warming beliefs resulted in them being laughing stocks both in the scientific community and to the general public. In essence their plot failed.

USFW and USGS do both fall under the Department of the Interior heading but this does not automatically mean their going to be supportive of each others views on an issue. At this point there's no way of telling what exactly is happening . Without being familiar with all the party's involved I wouldn't assume anything about who's going to do what. In any event taking the time to try and stand up for yourself is never wasted time. I appreciate the efforts of all who did.

Ernie Eison
Westwoodreptiles.com

Well I'd say that the unelected branches of government that can't be held accountable and hardly ever see an effected member of the populous are the ones that don't have much reason to care and frequently don't. The elected members do and frequently pander, like FL Senator Nelson. But I believe that silence isn't translated into agreement but as acquiescence. If you don't care to speak up, then you just don't care and aren't a danger.

My frustration at the beginning of this was that, unlike myself, many herpers didn't need or have a license. For them, just standing up to say something brought them out of anonymity. It may be unfounded to worry about that, but it bred some insecurity.

If this USFWS action does end in a Lacey addition, then FL can take away ownership of pets. This is something I was trying to have talked about on the Kingsnake USFWS panel discussion but that whole panel turned out to be a disappointment to me.

Anyone who thinks the USGS invasion maps are anything at all is ignoring the fact that they were released early and incomplete. The study isn't going to be finished for another year or two. Maybe the scientific community thinks they are a farce but the public does not. Far from being a laughing stock, these researchers haven't been criticized outside of the infringed herp community.

We shall see, we shall see...............

I'll keep this short and just say your off the mark. You are right about one thing we shall see . Regardless of the ultimate outcome it would have been nice if some of these acquiescence's stepped up . Overall your type of attitude is understandable. It's common for the people who have the least to do least. Funny thing is these people often act like they know the most.

Ernie Eison
wesywoodreptiles.com.

Of Course I'm Off The Mark.... I was making issue with some of your already stated points
Neither here nor there, as we can agree only time will tell what actually happens. The best thing we can do now is to keep our ears to the ground, pay attention to what is going on in the periphery and be on the lookout.