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Where is your head?

toshamc May 01, 2008 01:31 PM

Was having a discussion with some friends and thought I'd bring it to the boards just to get an idea of what people in general are thinking or if it's even a concern. Anyway - not meant to be a market bash or anything, just want to know where your head is at in these uncertain times.....

Will the recession stop or slow down your herp purchasing addiction? Has it already?

For those lucky enough to qualify for them - will you be spending your IRS stimulus checks on herps?

Has the possibility of a ban on interstate trade made you more cautious of your purchasing?

Is it business as usual, wait and see how it pans out, or buy it while you can still get it?
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Replies (15)

brianlovescheese May 01, 2008 01:34 PM

It's not stoping me from buying because I'm still making the same amount of money at my job and I don't really drive that far. Maybe this might make some morphs go down in price at the reptile shows if there isn't a big crowd. Who knows really?

LKirkland May 01, 2008 01:49 PM

"For those lucky enough to qualify for them - will you be spending your IRS stimulus checks on herps?"

Well......I'm one of the "Lucky" ones who are getting stimulus checks, i.e., I don't make enough money not to get one.

I won't be spending it on more herps. Goodness knows, I've been buying enough of those already!

I am going to use it along with some other funds to build a "reptile barn" and get all these dadgum snakes out of my house!!!
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Louis Kirkland
Cornerstone Reptiles

Brandon Osborne May 01, 2008 02:36 PM

>>Will the recession stop or slow down your herp purchasing addiction? Has it already?
>>

I recently started letting go of some holdbacks. Not only is time a factor, but economics are as well.

>>For those lucky enough to qualify for them - will you be spending your IRS stimulus checks on herps?
>>

Nope. I'll be putting that money in an account or on my house.

>>
>>Has the possibility of a ban on interstate trade made you more cautious of your purchasing?
>>

Yes. It proves we are not as free as we think. We are only as free as we are told we can be.

>>Is it business as usual, wait and see how it pans out, or buy it while you can still get it?
>>

I'm going to wait it out and see what happens. This is a serious matter....and for nothing more than political scare tactics. I've said it once and I'll say it again, our country is doomed.

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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

jyohe May 01, 2008 02:44 PM

most stuff is ALREADY soooo cheap that it is affordable and why not keep buying all you want......and sell all babies or adults within the state you reside in.....

? right.

......
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......

Tracy Barker May 01, 2008 05:31 PM

if Ball pythons were to be added to the "Injurious Species" list the following would apply:

"1) All live wildlife acquired under permit and all progeny thereof,
must be confined in the approved facilities on the premises authorized
in the permit.
(2) No live wildlife, acquired under permit, or any eggs or progeny
thereof, may be sold, donated, traded, loaned, or transferred to any
other person unless such person has a permit issued by the Director
under Sec. 16.22 authorizing him to acquire and possess such wildlife
or the eggs or progeny thereof."

Perhaps you did not read the fine print...

Tracy Barker May 01, 2008 05:36 PM

Title 50: Wildlife and Fisheries
PART 16—INJURIOUS WILDLIFE
Subpart C—Permits

§ 16.22 Injurious wildlife permits.
The Director may, upon receipt of an application and in accordance with the issuance criteria of this section, issue a permit authorizing the importation into or shipment between the continental United States, the District of Columbia, Hawaii, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States of injurious wildlife (See subpart B of this part) for zoological, educational, medical, or scientific purposes.

(a) Application requirements. Submit applications for permits to import, transport or acquire injurious wildlife for such purposes to the Director, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, (Attention: Office of Management Authority), 4401 N. Fairfax Drive, Room 700, Arlington, VA 22203. Submit applications in writing on a Federal Fish and Wildlife License/Permit application (Form 3–200) and attach all of the following information:

(1) The number of specimens and the common and scientific names (genus and species) of each species of live wildlife proposed to be imported or otherwise acquired, transported and possessed;

(2) The purpose of such importation or other acquisition, transportation and possession;

(3) The address of the premises where such live wildlife will be kept in captivity;

(4) A statement of the applicant's qualifications and previous experience in caring for and handling captive wildlife.

(b) Additional permit conditions. In addition to the general conditions set forth in part 13 of this subchapter B, permits to import or ship injurious wildlife for zoological, educational, medical, or scientific purposes shall be subject to the following conditions:

(1) All live wildlife acquired under permit and all progeny thereof, must be confined in the approved facilities on the premises authorized in the permit.

(2) No live wildlife, acquired under permit, or any eggs or progeny thereof, may be sold, donated, traded, loaned, or transferred to any other person unless such person has a permit issued by the Director under §16.22 authorizing him to acquire and possess such wildlife or the eggs or progeny thereof.

(3) Permittees shall notify the nearest Special Agent-in-Charge (see §10.22 of this chapter) by telephone or other expedient means within 24 hours following the escape of any wildlife imported or transported under authority of a permit issued under this section, or the escape of any progeny of such wildlife, unless otherwise specifically exempted by terms of the permit.

(c) Issuance criteria. The Director shall consider the following in determining whether to issue a permit to import or ship injurious wildlife for zoological, educational, medical, or scientific purposes:

(1) Whether the wildlife is being imported or otherwise acquired for a bona fide scientific, medical, educational, or zoological exhibition purpose;

(2) Whether the facilities for holding the wildlife in captivity have been inspected and approved, and consist of a basic cage or structure of a design and material adequate to prevent escape which is maintained inside a building or other facility of such structure that the wildlife could not escape from the building or other facility after escaping from the cage or structure maintained therein;

(3) Whether the applicant is a responsible person who is aware of the potential dangers to public interests posed by such wildlife, and who by reason of his knowledge, experience, and facilities reasonably can be expected to provide adequate protection for such public interests; and

(4) If such wildlife is to be imported or otherwise acquired for zoological or aquarium exhibition purposes, whether such exhibition or display will be open to the public during regular appropriate hours.

(d) The Office of Management and Budget approved the information collection requirements contained in this part 16 under 44 U.S.C. 3507 and assigned OMB Control Number 1018–0093. The Service may not conduct or sponsor, and you are not required to respond to, a collection of information unless it displays a currently valid OMB control number. We are collecting this information to provide information necessary to evaluate permit applications. We will use this information to review permit applications and make decisions, according to criteria established in various Federal wildlife conservation statutes and regulations, on the issuance, suspension, revocation, or denial of permits. You must respond to obtain or retain a permit. We estimate the public reporting burden for these reporting requirements to average 2 hours per response, including time for reviewing instructions, gathering and maintaining data, and completing and reviewing the forms. Direct comments regarding the burden estimate or any other aspect of these reporting requirements to the Service Information Collection Control Officer, MS–222 ARLSQ, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Washington, DC 20240, or the Office of Management and Budget, Paperwork Reduction Project (1018–0093), Washington, DC 20603.

[39 FR 1169, Jan. 4, 1974, as amended at 47 FR 30786, July 15, 1982; 63 FR 52634, Oct. 1, 1998]

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Section 508 / Accessibility

Tracy Barker May 01, 2008 06:01 PM

captive bred offspring would HOPEFULLY be exempt from that because they were not "aquired under permit," so then JY could be his state's big producer and seller of Ball pythons. Let's hope it doesn't get to that point!

dadspets May 01, 2008 08:15 PM

Yes, please lets hope not........
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Education is Everything.......

jyohe May 03, 2008 02:11 PM

NO,,......,not me.....there are bigger people here than me....and I'm trying to downsize........

....and maybe we can sneak a few people over here in the dark.......?.....Texans even......we can teach them English with a Dutchy hint to it......noone will know.....

?
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......

jyohe May 03, 2008 02:04 PM

I didn't read any of it

.....I didn't say I liked it or want it to happen......

I don't want anyone stopping us from doing anything.....

..they tried stuff here in Columbia ,Pa......I,,,and I alone went to a special meeting with the boro council and they said..yep.he's right.....nevermind thinking about new laws or permits...........you're welcome Columbioa ,Pa people......LOL

........a Free America.......even if gas isn't.......
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......

EricIvins May 01, 2008 02:58 PM

Nope
Yep
Nope

All I can hope for is that things go well with this whole inquiry deal, and go from their.

PiedPeddler May 01, 2008 04:33 PM

I've got my plan and I'm sticking to it:
Keep the collection small enough so it isn't a chore to maintain. This means selling off proven het breeders as well as co-dom breeders so they can be replaced by the visuals and combo's that reach breeding size. There should be a market for visual morphs for many years to come, and I expect the prices to continue to offset the expenses of participating in that market. So, my plan is to keep it as simple and enjoyable as possible because I will be doing this for a long time.
Paul

dadspets May 01, 2008 05:31 PM

I myself will be using the money to fund my new reptile room. Which will consist of a family room, so I can keep an on the kids while working with my animals, wash room, spare room for what ever and an incubation room. I'm also building a new rat room so I will need this extra cash.
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Education is Everything.......

milkman2 May 01, 2008 07:22 PM

I stopped buying last year, not because of the recession, but due to the fact that I have enough projects to keep me going for years. I will still trade, but I do not put any more disposable cash into the "collection". But, yes, it will keep me from buying, I am paying a lot more in gas to get to my paying job so this job is on the back burner.

IRS check and selling some of my collection will probably go to buying a motorcycle. I drive 80 miles a day to work and here in S Florida, you can ride a bike year round.

Until I know for sure whether this ban passes or not, I am not putting any cash into the collection, if it passes, thousand dollar snakes are worthless and like I said, I have enough to keep me going for years if they are grandfathered in. If not, I sure hope they taste like chicken.

One thing I am wondering, have the feds thought of what is going to happen to all of these animals once they make selling or trading them illegal? I love my animals and have kept my collection to a size that is easily managed, but what about people with hundreds or even thousands of animals that are all of a sudden "worthless" .... Are they going to be subsidized by the government to pay to feed these animals....python welfare? Question for the bigger breeders? What are you going to do with your collections should this legislation pass? Are the feds going to "buy" all these animals for the going rate? I cannot see people "doing away" with their prized animals and many people may be financially ruined if this passes....makes ya wonder....Are we going to be buying and trading snakes on the "black market"? If what we have now is grandfathered in, will that put an end to the breeding? What do you do with all those possible het males....For all of you that think "no problem, I will just sell in my state", remember, Fed laws trump state laws...just ask the growers of medical marijuana in California.

NorthernRegius May 03, 2008 05:45 PM

I use a different piggy bank for the snakes. But the way I'll spend the return will help me to meet my keeping & breeding goals.

I have no intention in just "hoping" for anything sane from the federal government... so I'll continue to actively fight anything that tries to take away my personal rights/freedoms (and those of others). We do not need to be protected from ourselves IMHO.

I spent 21 years in the USAF defending our freedoms & rights... that battle continues & thankfully I have the good sense to exercise my part in the process. Voting, petitioning & the like... same fight different front.

I hope each person who gets a return enjoys the proceeds.

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