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male and female living together?

mealworm33 May 03, 2008 03:28 PM

I have two bearded dragons - one is an adult male about 5 years old and used to living by himself, and the other is a 1.5 year old female. The male is on the larger side and the female is on the smaller side. Both are now living in a large enclosure with a screen divide between them.

I would really like for them to live together, and I was hoping to be able to take down the divide.. but the male will not stop bobbing his head at my girl. He even bobs his head at me. She's completely scared of him and runs away whenever I try to put them together. I get nervous that he's going to hurt her if I did take down the barrier.

Does anyone have any experience with male and female dragons living together? Is it a bad idea for me to try?

Thanks,
Marie

Replies (5)

BDlvr May 03, 2008 03:37 PM

For a good opinion we need to know the weights of the dragons.

I always try to make compatable pairs. But, in many cases it doesn't work out.

Just this week I had a 300 gram male damage a 700 gram female "around the house". Some males are just to rough to live or interact with a female at my tolerance for abuse level.

PHLdyPayne May 03, 2008 06:16 PM

males and females don't need to live together... I think you are better off putting a solid barrier between your two dragons. This way she won't see him to be scared..and possibly go off eating and suffering other stress related problems. He also won't be distracted with trying to mate with her.
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PHLdyPayne

mealworm33 May 05, 2008 07:08 PM

Yes, thats a good idea. I will probably put up a solid barrier when I have the chance if they can't live together. While constructing the cage, I did not anticipate this problem.

I know that they don't NEED to live together; however, there are some very good reasons why I would LIKE for them to live together -- it's cheaper (fewer bulbs), they get a larger cage with a larger variety of temperatures, and it takes up less space in my small apartment.

My question is whether you or anyone has had any experience with male and females living together and whether they are compatable. Does it take time for them like each other or will they never get a long? From what I've read it seems as if it is dependent on the personalities and size of the animals.

Marie

beachbeardies May 05, 2008 09:04 PM

plain and simple....if you do not intend to breed them do not house them together. not intending to be rude so dont take it that way. the male could injure the female or female could even injure the male. breeding is the main reason not to house them together. stress is another factor. those topics right there should be all the reason you need to not house them together. you say its cheaper to house them together, it wont be cheaper in the long run when you have 5 clutches of 20 babies running around.
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Beach Beardies

2.2. bearded dragons
1.1. Sugar Gliders
0.2. Felines *queen athena and missy*

PHLdyPayne May 06, 2008 02:46 PM

As you already have a large cage with a divider, one large UVB florescent tube fixture can be hung so it covers both sections of the cage...so all you really need is additional heat bulbs/fixtures.

It is possible for a male and female dragon to live together in the same cage and get along. But...the male will breed her every year and since he only has one female..he can easily over breed her. Bearded dragons are rather rough when it comes to mating, and when they bite the back of the neck of the female, they can tear the skin, causing injuries that will need to be treated to prevent infection.

The female then has the stress of producing eggs when means you have to ensure she gets plenty of food, extra calcium and vitamins, good basking time and exposure to UVB rays. She can't do this if she is being harassed by the male, chased around the cage etc. Producing eggs takes a toll on female's bodies..and laying multiple clutches in a season as bearded dragons do, often means little to no rest period between clutches...and a dragon can quickly lose calcium reserves due to the shelling process and suddenly suffer MBD, or other complications.

Even if the eggs are destroyed (frozen for 24 hours after being laid to 'kill' the embryo) then thrown out, there are many special things you need to do to ensure the health of your dragons. Having a proper egg laying bin for her to lay eggs in is necessary.. female dragons can retain eggs if they don't find a suitable nesting site...and 'holding in' their eggs gives a higher risk of egg binding...which can kill your dragon. Careful monitoring is needed on your part to notice if your dragon is having troubles passing eggs.

Other than breeding attempts bearded dragons don't always like to be with other bearded dragons. Even females housed together can suddenly turn on each other and you come home to find one of the dragons missing half their tail, toes, or even an entire limb.

Other than fighting and egg laying...other issues that can result from more than one dragon in each cage. Spread of disease/parasites. It is harder to monitor how often each dragon poops. If one develops internal parasites...both dragons have to be treated for it at the same time..which means taking two dragons to the vet, to be weighed so proper dosages of dewormer etc to be subscribed. Both dragons will have to be treated, and its harder to keep two dragons in the same cage from cross contaminating each other...if in separate cages, just have to make sure items used in one cage don't come in contact with items from the other cage...and only one dragon needs to be treated for internal parasites or most diseases. External parasites are likely to migrate into other cages anyway, if not caught fast enough..but better chance it not happening, if the dragons have no physical contact with each other.

Stress and dominance are other factors. Often when multiple dragons are housed together, one may dominate the other, taking the best basking sites, the bulk of the food, chase or otherwise harass its cage mate(s). With sub-adult dragons, this often results in one dragon growing faster than the other...and if not separated, the smaller dragon will eventually die..either from lack of food, parasite flare ups due to high levels of stressed or in extreme cases be eaten by the larger cage mate. Cocciadia, a common internal parasite in bearded dragons which is almost always present at some level in the gut of dragons will flare up to uncontrollable populations in a stressed dragon, especially prolonged periods of stress. Normally the dragon's natural gut flora keep cocciadia levels under control naturally so it is never a health risk for the dragon.

It may cost a few hundred dollars initially to have two separate cages...but treating a dragon for an injury or failure to thrive, egg binding etc. with a qualified vet can quickly cost more than the price of a second cage. All dragons should get at least an annual checkup and fecal done regardless, to ensure they are healthy and catch any problems early. An annual checkup with fecal per dragon may cost $40-$100 depending on the vet...but treating a sick dragon..can cost much more.

Oh and breeding bearded dragons and hatching their eggs...costs quite a bit. Bearded dragons are so prolific just doing it once for fun..isn't worth it. If you want to try breeding reptiles..buy a pair of crested or gargoyle geckos...or leopard geckos... these are easy to breed, don't take much room, and produce small clutches (2 eggs per clutch, multiple clutches per year...but not much more than 5-6 clutches, so 10-12 eggs per year).

A healthy single female bearded dragon in one season, can lay up to 25 eggs per clutch and as many as 6 clutches. Average...about 20 eggs per clutch and 3-4 clutches per year.

Baby bearded dragons eat ALOT of crickets... a single baby dragon for their first 2-3 months of age...(at which time they are old enough to be sold to new homes...) needs to be fed insects 3-4 times a day. Some can eat as many as 100 crickets of the appropriate size in a day spread over those 3-4 meals. Average is more like 50. Average clutch size..20 times average food eaten per day per baby, is 1000 crickets a day. Over a week, you are looking at 7000 crickets eaten by an average size clutch of bearded dragons...so breeding dragons is not something to be considered lightly. You can easily spend $45 or more per week just on crickets alone. To raise one clutch of babies till they are at minimum age and size to go to new homes can be $270 just for food alone. And I am being conservative on the cost. Just checking one big feeder insect company which includes shipping, it is $75 / 5000 crickets, so even assuming the clutch eats only 5000 instead of 7000 per week, thats $450 for feeding 20 baby dragons for 6 weeks.

Sorry for the long post, but just wanted to point out that it may seem easier and cheaper to house two dragons together...in the long run, it can end up costing much more.
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PHLdyPayne

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