Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Are there only two lines?
1. NERD
2. Grazziani

Are the lines compatible?
meaning.....if I bred a NERD pastel to a Grazziani....will I get some supers? Or will I just get a pastel that has both lines in it?

Capive Bred Reptiles

There are many lines of pastels: there is the.....
-NERD
-Graziani
-Ian Gwinonoski (???)
-Snake Keeper
-VPI
and many more........

Now as of today, we have found that ALL of these lines ARE compatable...Meaning if you bred any of these two lines togeather you will produce supers.

Fun stuff .........and it can only get funner!!!!

Mike

So they are all compatible.
What is the difference?

To me it sounds like they produced a pastel and called it their own line. I mean it sounds like I can buy a pastel and call it the Ritchie Line

Not Exactly......They each got there lines Straight from Africa and either saw something a little different about it like pattern or the color holding longer or they just simply called it there own line because the blood is freash I guess you could say, basically the pastel they just imported is not related to any pastels here. If you bred two normals and produced a pastel which is like 1,000,000,001 to 1 then yes you could call it your line techanally.

Hope this helped.........Mike

I am edumacated now.

I see your point. If I imported a ball....I too would call it my own line since it won't PROBABLY be related to theirs.

I am still waiting for that miracle leucistic to pop out of my animals.

a leuy boa would be nice too.

anyway thanks again

You have been misinformed. There are three lines of pastels, the Graziani Line, (which the Snake Keepers use) the N.E.R.D. line, and Mark Bell Line, all are compatible.

n/p

Actually Ian Gwoniski DOES have a line of his own, we just purchesed a male at daytona from his line from D & M Beeders. So if your saying that they are callin a snake something its not then please let me know so I can tell them that you said they are liers........

Mike

I suspect there are more lines out there. I have seen several CH pastels imported this year alone. I myself have two wild caught females that I hope to breed this season. One of these females is very different looking, her eyes are almost completely yellow. -Oz
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You know I am gonna buy a baby off you right?

np

I love this girl... she's doing great and eating everything in site! I took a gamble when I bought these two pastels and hit the jackpot... now all I have to do is get them to breed!

Take Care,
Oz
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np

Impossible to breed to normals and produce a pastel. Pastel is co-dom, no hets. Unless of course you found a new line of recessive pastels....
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Josh
My Email

Where did the first pastels come from then? It had to be normal balls who had a couple of genes mutated in one of their offspring. It wasn't a co-dom trait in the normal parents. More than likely, they were completely normal, it was just a mutation that happened in the genetic sequence of one of the sperms or eggs. It's what gives a species variation.
The next generation also included pastels because it turned out to be a co-dominant trait.

However, all the pastels are probably related to each other then. The possibility of the same mutation happening in the same alleles (thus allowing compatibility between the different "lines" in different, completely unrelated occasions is extremely unlikely.

Although pastels are radically different than normals, they aren't as far offfrom the normal appearance as say albinos, and that is what allowed them to survive in the wild through the years (they may still camouflage rather efficiently) and create the effect of "different lines" as they were captured in separate occasions. Each founder of the different lines of captive is probably the from the same original line of wild pastels from a single founding parent.

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A while back two different people posted about getting extremely high rates of pastels in their pastel male to normal female breedings. It could just have been luck. However, I would be interested in hearing about the family trees of their males. Were there any pastel X pastel breedings involving different lines?

If it works out that there are different genes that can mutate to create a co dominant pastel looking animal it would be hard to know how the two would interact. Maybe having both genes wouldn't create a super pastel looking animal but since it carried two different pastel like genes it would produce 3/4 pastel looking offspring rather than the expected 1/2.

It's also possible that two different pastel like mutations could combine to create super looking animal that could still produce about 1/4 normal babies. It would be hard to say for sure that two lines are the same just looking at if they produce super looking animals or not. I guess the only way you could be sure is if they produce a super that only produces pastels out of a large number of babies to normals and hence you know that it really is homozygous for a single mutation and not just het for two different mutations.

So, how many super pastel breedings have been done so far?

You have a good point there, but as you said, it might have just been pure luck that so many pastels were produced in those clutches.
First you'd have to find out if the pastel parent was produced from a pastel to pastel breeding and if there were any supers in that clutch.
It just might be true
If not, then there's probably only one pastel gene out there...

I don't think they work with their own line. In fact, I think they were some of Gregs first customers. -Oz
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I mentioned that a few hours ago, couple posts up.

I mentioned that a few hours ago, couple posts up.

I mentioned that a few hours ago, couple posts up.

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There are SO MANY lines of pastels that it hardly makes any difference. I have two different females that were hatched in "AFRICA" so I guess that I get to call them my line! At some point this whole thing becomes absurd. I have seen from "another" import line pastel that was possibly; the worst looking pastel ever, produce some amazing pastel babies. Do not get caught up in the hype. Some are definitly better others, but as of right now a pastel is a pastel! Regardless of who produced it, including me! Douglas Beard / Flora & Fauna