Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My burm just laid this morning and I have a chicken incubator set up, but have read alot saying leave them with the mom, any thoughts?

Also do they always throw out bad eggs, because I think there are two bad ones and she is sitting them, one is discolored and one is very small?

jsbarnwell

If the enclosure retains humidity good & you're able to maintain aproximately 70 - 80% humidity fairly easily I suggest leaving the eggs with momma. There are things you can do to help keep the humidity up for most fully enclosed cages.

I also feel that you also need to be able to maintain an ambient temperature of 85 - 88 degrees for the nesting area. Some say slightly lower temps (low to mid 80's) but I feel this works momma quite a bit to keep the temps of the eggs up.

Overnight temps can drop a little as long as they don't last very long.

It's common for them to have a few dud eggs in a clutch. If you're not positive they're duds, leave 'em until you are.

Let it be known that I don't consider myself an expert and I'm not bashful about doing things against the norm if it works for me. In other words, I'm advising you to take other people's suggestions into consideration as well and do what you feel is right for you & your situation.

Congrats on the eggs! What are the parents?

Have a good one!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

The temp in the middle of the cage is 85 but she laid right under the light is that bad?

The one that is a little discolored, Im not sure about, but the other is less than half the size of the other eggs and its color looks good, can they have runts? lol

Will she throw them out or do I have to pull them?

Both are reg. burms I think but her yellow is totally gray. Any input on that would be nice too.

JS

"The temp in the middle of the cage is 85 but she laid right under the light is that bad?"

Not necessarily, she chose to lay them there for a reason. Whether it's bad or not is really going to depend on you from here on out. It can make it harder to maintain high humidity, though. If the light is a typical white light and shines directly on the eggs I personally think it would be good to move it just slightly to one side or another.

If you don't have a thermostat regulating the heat source now's a good time to get one. Preferrably one of the more expensive proportional ones but a $25 on/off thermostat beats the heck out of nothing. I'd keep the the ambient temperature where she's at around 87 -88. Some may feel this is too high & they may be right, but my philosophy is that she laid them there for a reason, knowing what the temps were already.

My female laid her clutch directly under the ceramic heat emitter last year and the ambient temp there was 91 but this year she laid them closer to the cool end, with an ambient temp of aprox 85.

As for the questionable eggs, you'll have to pull them once you know for sure they're bad, unless you can handle the smell. You'll know when it's time to pull 'em.

As for one being gray, there are some that have lots of silver/gray on the lower parts of their side. I've seen a few with a lot of bright silver that was quite appealing. Can you post a photo?

Catch ya later!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

She has one of the red heat lights 150watt, my husband is using one of those expensive thermos. herpastat pro I think. The temp right by her is 88 and he just put a humidity thing in there and it says 60% right now, we sprayed down the other half of the cage to try to raise the humidity, She is in an AP cage? I dont have any batteries for the camera right now, but will post when I get some.

JS

JS,
Mike was correct in that ambient temps for burmese at the nest site are best kept at 86 to 88. Another way to double check temps is to count the females contraction rate. They should ideally be between 5 and 10 per minute. If consistently less than 5, the nest box area temps could be too high. If consistently greater than 10, you might want to raise the temps slightly, however be careful as she can raise the egg mass temp, but she has no way to cool the egg mass if it gets above her maternal incubation temp.

Humidity needs to be maintained above 80% or you could have problems. Also, if you can't get to the bad eggs don't worry about them. They will not cause any problems for the fertile eggs even if in contact with them. I always advocate the use of maternal incubation if you have the ability to set it up correctly. Good luck.

Kelly

I've got the humidity up to 70, still trying.
Sasha

What to look for:
Too low of a humidity level will cause the eggs to desiccate, go flat. If you see the eggs getting indentions or looking deflated you'll know the humidity is too low.

When they do desiccate they will never regain their shape but you can keep stop it by increasing humidity.

Here's what happens when humidity gets too low.

All the eggs in the photo hatched but the babies were very dehydrated and had wrinkled skin due to it.

If you look closely you can see a labyrinth burmese's head sticking out of the egg on the bottom row, 2nd from left.

Do like Kelly said & keep humidity above 80%.

Yell if ya'll have any other questions.

Take care!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

You should be able to maintain 80%-plus humidity in an AP cage without it working you to death. If Kelly reads this post maybe he'd be kind enough to post his photo of how he used something like a wallpaper water tray filled with water and a towel in it that works like a wick.

You can also put a few inches of cypress mulch in the cage (around her and/or in the open areas) and keep it misted. Cypress mulch is more mildew/mold resistant than pine shavings, aspen, and you can get a big bag pretty cheap at most garden centers, like at Home Depot, Lowes, and maybe even Wal-Mart.

Best wishes!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

I think cyprus mulch is what is in her cage.
I have it up to 80 right now, I will just keep a close eye on it to see how often I need to spray. She came off the eggs except for around them, does that mean its to hot.
Sasha

"She came off the eggs except for around them, does that mean its to hot."

Possibly. If she's nesting directly under the heat source and the temp beside her measures 88 I'd lower the thermostat setting about 3 degrees and see how things go.

Last year mine would ocassionally crawl around, seemingly "stretching her legs", so to speak. There were a few times she did what yours did and I interpreted it as cooling the eggs, or avoiding overheating them. I don't think yours has been on the eggs long enough to be taking breaks, yet, but anything's possible.

Also, some will feed while on the eggs while others won't. Mine wouldn't. I suggest offering her a fresh-killed or frozen/thawed meal every now & then.

One last thing that's on my mind at the moment; if you haven't noticed by now, momma burms can be protective of their eggs, no matter how docile she normally is. So be careful & respectful.

Hang in there!
Mike
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

I would be interested in hearing or seeing the paper towel wick thing if Kelly could help, I've been misting ever few hours to keep the humidity up.

Thanks for all the help,
Sasha

Sasha,
This is the setup I have been using very successfully since the late 1970's. It will typically keep the ambient humidity at about 90%, and the lowest I have ever seen the humidity with this setup is about 85%. The plastic boxes contain cloth towels that need to stick out above the surface of the water and act as a wick system. It is heated from below the cage bottom using Flexwatt. Also, the smaller the interior cage volume, the easier it is to maintain the higher humidity and air vents are kept to a minimum. The nest box is lined with moist, long-fibered sphagnum, and about once every three days I will spray a little water over the top of the female and around her to keep the sphagnum moist. Other than this I don’t do anything else to the environment. The key is to keep the nest box substrate temps and ambient temps in the mid-80's and being careful not to let it get above about 88. I would not have a heat source directly above the female as this could easily cause problems. Always use quality temp and humidity monitoring equipment if at all possible. I have had outstanding success with this setup and never had any egg desiccation problems, or health problems with the females.

If a female burmese completely leaves the egg mass during incubation, that could be a sign that something may not be quite right. I have never had a female burmese or Sri Lanka python leave the eggs completely during incubation. The loosening of the coils could be a sign that the egg mass is too warm, but they will periodically shift positions around the egg mass as well. Look back at my previous post on the females muscular contraction rate as that will also give you a good idea about your existing temp range. Good luck and you will see the results in 56 days.

Kelly

"I have never had a female burmese or Sri Lanka python leave the eggs completely during incubation."

That why I said, "...seemingly "stretching her legs", so to speak." I was trying to be careful not to mislead anyone.

I know the temp was high where mine nested last year. If I remember correctly the ambient temp was about 91 near the nesting area. The few times she left the eggs she basically just sort of stretched out for a few minutes & then recoiled. I wondered if it was due to too high temps but didn't feel like she left them long enough for her to consder them to have cooled down much.

Kelly, have you seen or noticed a pattern of first-time mother Burmese laying their eggs under the heat source, in too high of a temperature? Just curious since mine did it last year but not this year, and now this one in this post did it.

Thanks for posting that photo. I looked for it earlier but couldn't find it.

Take care!
Mike
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

Well I figured out my problem and hope I didn't cause more of a problem.
I went and got a good humidity thing and it is reading 84%, my other one is reading under 60%, so when I was raising the humidity to 80% it was probably at least 100%
Mama keeps getting off of them probably to bring the humidity down.

Can these eggs still be ok?

How do you post pics on here?

jsbarnwell

Trying to post pic of snake and eggs, lots of water on glass.

Nah, you didn't goof. Everything should be fine, at least, in the area of humidity. I was wondering why you were having a rough time getting the humidity up with an enclosure like yours. Glad you got that sorted out and I'm glad Kelly mentioned using quality measuring devices.

I'd say that she's still uncoiling a bit to keep the temperature down. I can see the heat light reflecting off her body in the photo. You might want to consider lowering the temperature a few more degrees and see what happens. Have you been counting the contraction rate like Kelly mentioned?

When misting, I think it's best to use water about close to the same temperature as the desired cage temperature. It doesn't have to be on the money, just basically not cold or cool water. Cold/cool water, I feel, can lower the ambient temperature and trigger the heat source. The temperature of the eggs won't decrease during that short timeframe (from time of misting to time the heat source is activated) but their temperature can increase during the timeframe that the heat source is active. I hope I didn't confuse you too much with that, I'm having a heck of a time putting my thoughts into words at the moment. Consider it a "hillbilly moment." Ha!

You're getting it fine tuned. Hang in there & keep up the good work.

Take care!
Mike
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

The contrations have been 4-7 per min.

I am still dealing with everything fluctuating, depending on where the hydrometer is, but I am going by that and more of the way she is acting now. I think the light screws with the measurements.

Here is a pic of her right after a shed, before cleaning the cage out, what do you thing of the gray, is it something special or is she just dull, lol? I think she is cool looking.

jsbarnwell

I would agree with Mike, if she is getting off the eggs periodically, the overhead heat is probably warming her body too much and she is moving off the eggs and away from the heat source to cool her body back down to avoid overheating the egg mass. It's difficult to get the humidity too high with burmese eggs, unless they are actually standing in pooled water. Move the heat source to another area of the cage away from her and monitoring the ambient temps around her at body level. That contraction rate tells me that the temps may be just slightly high where she is nesting.

Kelly

I think I will have my husband try to figure out a way to move the light tonight, as of right now its in one of those cut outs on the top of the cage with the wire mesh. Im not sure where the fill in piece for the hole is or how he would want it hung.
JSbarnwell

You could just try and find another heating source to put in the cage and turn off the light. Or you could also put the light on a dimmer if you wanted to keep it on with the other heat source.

"...what do you thing of the gray, is it something special or is she just dull, lol?"

I've seen a few with similar colors but not many. The pattern is slightly different than most normals, too. I'm afraid to even try to speculate as to what morph it could possibly be het for, if any.

I like it's traits but most people will still consider it a "normal" and that's probably what will dictate it's future.

That's not the same cage in the last pic as the one in the nesting pic you posted earlier, is it? The reason I ask is if the cage she's nesting in has a big opening covered with wire, like in the last pic, you will have problems keeping humidity up. Close off as many/much of the vents as possible, leaving just enough for air flow, which doesn't much at all.

Later!
Mike
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

no different cage