Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I recently saw a discussion about kinked spines in caramel albinos. Are kinks something that shows at birth? I have seen some rescue snakes with kinked backs, would this always be genetic, or do some injuries produce a similar issue? Would a genetic bone growth issue appear suddenly when a ball is 2-3 years old?
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http://darkbloodwyvern.deviant.com

I'm not a doctor or scientist, but I have a girl with a kinked back. She laid a 6 eggs clutch for me last year and 2 of the babies had kinks. I incubated that clutch the same way I incubate every clutch. Those are the only 2 babies I've ever had come out with a kink. I believe some kinking is genetic.

I think you get a little of both - obviously there is a genetic kinking issue like the caramel - but you'll also see kinking due to injuries - broken backs, poorly healed injuries and the like.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Hi,

Kinking is genetic in some lines of caramel albinos when they are inbred with sibs or parents. Outbreeding to different lines has helped the situation somewhat and as further outbreeding and culling of kinked animals from breeding groups continues, kinked caramels should become more of an exception. I have hatched kinked and non-kinked caramels from sib to sib het breedings and will hopefully hatch out some clean caramels from this years outbred clutches.

Other forms of kinking are not genetic such as the kinking that occurs when snake eggs (any snakes) are incubated at to to high of a temperature during a certain stage of embyonic development. I have had incubators spike unexpectedly which resulted in clutches of kingsnakes, carpets, burms and balls that had a high percentage of kinked offspring. This phenomena was clearly the result of the high incubation temperatures and not genetics, as the parents of all of the clutches routinely produced healthy, kink free babies prior to and after the malfunction.

Kinks that are genetic or temperature induced develop prior to hatching so they are evident immediately, whereas some nutritional deficiencies can cause developmental kinking that occurs over a period of time. This type of kinking can also be minimalized by a return to good husbandry and contined normal development. Basically, the animal can sometimes grow out of the kink to the point where it is no longer noticeable. Good luck.

Will

how does a kink affect the overall health of the snake? does it hinder it in any of its functions or does it not really cause to much of a problem?

Of all of the kinked babies that I have kept and given to friends, all have progressed absolutely normally and some of the non-genetically kinked animals have grown to be strong breeders (which produced normal offspring). I've never allowed a genetically kinked caramel to reproduce and pass on the defective trait.

Will

Best of luck but do please let us know how your outbred caramels come out this year. It might be like is looking to be the case with spinning spiders and kinking might be just part the caramel and cinnamon mutations until someone finds a way to counteract the genetic tendency.

Hi Randy,

Yes I agree, that might be the scenario we are looking at. I have heard anecdotal evidence that clean caramels have been more consistantly produced by breeding unrelated animals, but this year will be my first experience. I have eggs from 2 NERD x Malsin het pairings, so i am hopeful.

Will

I know that most animals born with kinks can survive it, but some have bodily functions, such as eating or defecating that is hindered by their kink. I talked to a few people about snakes other than balls born with kinks and sometimes they cannot strike or swallow if the kink is on their neck. As far as balls go, I've seen photos and videos about kinked snakes that have weird backs but get around fine. I think it depends on the part of the body and the amount of kinking. Is the Miracle ball snake kinked, or is it some other kind of defect?

here is a link, i think she is cute!

http://www.ballpython.ca/miracle.html
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http://darkbloodwyvern.deviant.com

Thanks! that's very helpful. I have a really handsome rescue I'd sort of like to breed if he wants to at some point, but he does have a back injury. I was told it showed up when he was 2 or 3 all of a sudden and the owner though he broke something. I wouldn't wish to breed him if it wasn't an injury. Are there any indications that a kink/bump is an injury rather than a birth defect? I was wondering if it would be worth the time to get him X-rayed. Kind of curious what the bones there look like anyways, I may just get it done eventually.

It does look like an old healed injury with some scar tissue, so I am not inclined to believe the previous owner has any reason to lie about it. I got the rescues for free, so there wasn't any incentive for her.
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http://darkbloodwyvern.deviant.com

Hi,

Yes, kinking due to injuries is pretty common (at least in my experience) and certainly is not genetic and won't be passed on to offspring. Back in the early 90's, I purchased a young trophy jungle carpet python from Don Hamper. Apparantly, one of his helpers closed the cage lid on this snake's tail as a baby, which resulted in a kink as the snake grew. This kink was pretty dramatic and right around the spot in the tail where the hemipenes retract. Now this snake was only available because of this injury and nobody wanted to risk the time and energy to raise it only to find out that the injury mechanically sterilized the animal. Well, being young and hopeful, I purchased the animal and raised him up. Well, he got better looking with age and developed into the finest black and mustard yellow jugle I had ever seen... and he was a breeding machine. the injury didn't interfere with reproduction one bit. His ancestors still form the core of my jungle group. So, in my experience it is worth the risk. Good luck.

will

Cool, thanks! obviously if the male's kinks show up in his young, he will not be bred anymore, but in all likelihood it is due to his probably injuries. I just wanted to make sure that it wouldn't be likely that genetic kinking would develop after hatching as opposed to being part of an unborn hatchling's development.

and good job gambling on an awesome python! carpets are so cool!
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http://darkbloodwyvern.deviant.com

Some congenital defects are genetic. Others have environmental causes, like vitamin deficiencies in the mother, chemicals, and diseases. Look up thalidomide and rubella in Wikipedia for a chemical and a disease that cause congenital defects in humans. Gout is not congenital, but it can affect snake vertebral joints as well as human joints.