Reptile & Amphibian Forums

whats the conclusion on nile monitors as pets, or captives. I keep hearing that they are a horrible monitor to keep. but then why are they still being sold in large numbers? are the people that buy them just idiots, or what. im considering buying one, but im so hesitent because of their size, the husbandry involved, and their reputation. however id also like a lizard that i cant hold in the palm of my hand. so i want one but i want to make sure i can support one before i get it. any information or personal oppinion is greatly valued. thanks guys.

tens of thousands of Nile Monitors are sold each year, and i imagine one percent make it out of that first year. they sell well because they are super cheap, wholesaling sometimes for all of $5.

they make a terrible choice for a first monitor, and we have a Nile Monitor FAQ available at our site, check the link below.

if you want a large monitor, take a good look at Blackthroats. i think they are the best choice in a large monitor. but not the best overall, that would be the Ackies.

monitor keeping is a great experience, but the first step, choosing the right species, sets the tone for whether it becomes a great experience, or a miserable one : )
Pro Exotics Nile Monitor FAQ

-----
robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

My first monitor is/was a Nile (3 year old female), and shes not exactly what I would call a 'treat'.

As a monitor lizard, shes great- but as a 'captive', I can think of many other species I would suggest before a Nile.
The reasoning? ProExotics gives a pretty good definition.

I love my Nile, in all her moody glory, but all the same I wouldnt suggest the species as a starter- they can be really nice animals, but they can also be large, aggressive carnivorous lizard... what a surprise, eh?

Large monitors in general are something Id suggest really thinking about- having a big lizard sounds like a cool concept, but it really is ALOT of work to maintain. If youre really sure you have the time/interest/resources, check out what Robyn suggested and consider your choices carefully.

Hey Robyn

I think you summed it up perfectly with.....

'the first step, choosing the right species, sets the tone for whether it becomes a great experience, or a miserable one : )'

After seeing the experience that an old friend had with a water monitor many years ago i was hesitant about keeping monitors despite being fascinated with them for ages!
After lurking and reading for ages i acquired my first Ackies i was worried that i wouldnt enjoy them because of their size but......theyre awesome animals to keep/breed!
Every beginner 'thinks' they want a big monitor....why is this?
Is it because of the WOW factor? Is it because they want an animal that acts like something theyve seen on the Discovery Channel?
Honestly if you want an interesting lizard that is always on the go (unless sleeping) that will eat like a horse, will strut around its enclosure like a 10' Komodo Dragon and have a personality that is unique to each specimen then the Ackies are what youre after!

I guess you could say im biased about them but they are as close to the 'perfect monitor' as you can get ......especially as a first monitor.
If you get a Water or a Bosc as your first monitor....then youre in for a VERY steep learning curve.....or a poorly lizard in a short amount of time...sorry

Absolutely right. I love my Nile but he is a stinker. If you don't have experience with reptiles, start out slow. Get a Tokay gecko and see how you like a small angry lizard before you get a big angry lizard, because more than likely you monitor will get nasty. I love the Nile behavior and have been able to calm him slightly but its a challenge that can eaisly be underestimated without the knowledge first. Find a friend or zoo and go visit first to get a feel of the creature . Then decide if you want teeth and claws living in the same house with fluffy the mild mannered cat or jones the pitbull terrier. A creature that can live with Crocs? You be the judge.
They are awsome if you can handle that kind of temperment and interact with it. Because the longer you don't interact the meaner they become,, usually and then people dump them and then we have to save them in places like Florida Cheers!

I have to disagree with Robyn when it comes to nil monitors, Nil’s are the most interesting monitor in the world, they are the mother of all extant varanids, they have such a rich history and the widest geological spread of any varanids specie.

They represent everything a monitor is about ( size, climbing, swimming, hunting, display) and then more (ontogenetic color change and dentition change) both unique to many varanids.

They are defensive but not aggressive, they will display defensive attitude more then most other varanids, but if treated with respect this is not a problem.

Nil’s aren’t for you if you’re the type of keeper without patients, they aren’t for you if you see them as disposable, they aren’t for you if you need to handle your lizard.

Nil’s are for any keeper wishing to learn about varanids, they command respect and dedication.

Nil’s are one of the easiest to care for and feed monitor, a simple water change is just about all the cleaning your cage will need, 2$ will get you a can of snails and a can of sardines (niloticus food) at the dollar store, hissers are easily bred by the 1000s and make an excellent staple for nil’s of all size.

Nil’s have generated more income to the pet industry then any other monitor, second to the savannah. Millions have been imported and sold thru the years, everybody knows them.

Peoples buy them with cage and furniture’s, they find them fascinating for a while but soon realise what they got into.

As history repeat itself, peoples subsequently obtain an other monitor at some point and farther contribute to the pet industry (economics).

Nil’s are no worst then waters or albigularis, in fact niloticus is smaller and more predictable, and way way safer then waters.

Long term keepers of albigularis have all seen how mature males can display mood swing and unpredictable feeding response (feeding is the no1 accidental factor in herpetoculture)

Long term keepers of salvator knows how even an accidental bite will do serious damage, and many adult tame salvators revert to a don’t touch me attitude.
I have from experience seen most nil’s become trust wordy adults with even and predictable temperaments, they don’t express the feeding response that both albigularis and water normally show.

It is no less ethical to keep one specie over the other, regardless of monetary value a monitor is an animal we as keepers should respect and care for properly.

Rgds

hey everyone thanks for your responses. I really want a monitor because i find it fascinating to own such an amazing powerful animal, that is not warm blooded. its just completely different than a dog, or a cat.However ive been holding back on buying one because i realize how large they become, and didn't want to get into something that i would regret. right now my only problem is money and future space for one. i can buy a young hatchling for 20 dollars easily, and passed up the opportunity twice at a reptile expo. Its like "its cute now, but will become a monster within two years. The fact that they grow so fast didn't help my plan of buying a hatchling and then eventually building a larger enclosure for didn't seem like it would pan out.The thing is if i get a monitor thats it. i don't think i wanna plan on getting another one. however poor husbandry is the death knell of these guys so that a major concern i have as well. am i gonna kill this monitor if i get it? i don't want that on my conscience, i just lost a little lizard (ran away) so I don't wanna lose another one. I guess whats appealing about niles is their relative ease of purchase. However some you recommended ackies, and then others said niles aren't so bad, and water monitors are worse!! so now im kinda confused. so yeah this is a major decision for me!! need so clarification!!

waters are good but get very big and have a dangerous bite.

I personaly dont like the smaler species, they just dont do it for me, I prefer many other smaller lizards then dwraf monitors, a matter of tast.

anyway back to nils!
they will teach you better then all other monitors, thats my no1 reason to recomand them.

now lets say the real things and forget about the (pet) mentality syndrome that so many are willing to judge on these forums.

the truth is reptiles have no real value as captives other then to teach us about them, to each keeper they will bring somthing diferent in this regard.

I got my first nil in the 70s and kept her in a 55gal for 7 years, no she wasent stunted and yes she was in good helth.

see in nature nils can take 5-7 years to mature, they are sumited to the elements, sure captives can be raised to adult size in one year on a stedy supply of heat, hydration and food.

however they can olso be kept in very good condition at a much slower past.
only you can judge if this option fits your needs, I personaly have no problems slowing down growth be it to sale last years leftovers or to let some adult a rest period while I work on others. Thers surly nothing wrong in wanting a slow growing pet.

rgds

now thats a different way of looking at it!! i just thought they grew that way naturally,which they sorta do, but with optimal conditions. i think if i get one this will be mandatory, as i really dont want it to get to full size in my parents house. id like to have my own place by then?? either that or i build him his own enclosure.
I read that niles can live to 30 years in the wild, do they just not make it in captivity , and is poor husbandry involved, or have their been some good successes with long lived healthy captive niles? i would hate to be the cause of the death of my "pet", altho it happens.

well it starts with good intent in most cases, then neglect sets inn and the lizard starts perishing.

the problems are many,from uneducation to pure evil, the only thing we get out of keeping them is knowlege, every keeper have learned somthing from there experience and this alone justify keeping them, Iv met really bad keepers who became good keepers and monters eventho they killed a monitor or two.

my advise to you, get what you like and care for it like its your most important friend, ask many questions and use comon sens in there application.

I am just curious, but I hear you talk about the water monitor having a very dangerous bite, and I don’t refute that; however, wouldn’t the Nile be able to provide a pretty severe bite in relationship to the salvator as well?

I suppose it is a directly measureable to size?

Thanks,
Mike.

actualy as juvenils both species have similar dentition and therfor deliver similar bites.

however as adults nils have blut teeth built for crushing, no dought a sever bite will feel like a car door slam on your hand, probably crushing bones?

waters on the other hand have the same teeth as when young but now extra large in format, these will do nerve and tendom and muscle damage for sure, even a simple warning bite.

my opinion is based on long term captives, those suceptible to a warning or acidental bite. in witch case a nil bite is the least damageble.

for angre full blown bite both species are very dangerous and capable of amputation.

also nils are easy to read as they display alot more then waters.

rgds

Thanks everyone for your responses i appreciate the help!!
in terms of diet for larger nile monitors does it consist of insects supplimented with rodents, or the opposite. I read that they eat alot of fish, so im guessing that fish is a big part of their diet. is a diet heavy on rodents bad for them?

Hi!
nils in your parent house is a bad decision, even if you go easy on feeding to reduce growth speed.
Really bad decision.
Wait until you get your own place.
Take care!

P.S to jobi..... I have something here waiting for you my friend.

yeah i think im reconsidering nile monitors for a later time in my life... im gonna look into ackies they seem the better choice for someone whose just getting into monitors, and not alot of space to keep one since im not the only one living in my house. i have space its just not the space for a nile monitor.

the right keeper can keep ANY type of reptile, monitor or otherwise.

but who is the right keeper? what is their intention? what is their capability? does the simple interest in keeping a Nile, or a Croc Monitor, make them the "right" keeper?

out of 1000 Nile babies that are sold, how many go to a qualified and knowledgeable keeper? how many live past 2 years old?

the answers to those questions are not positive, they are horrible, and i cannot recommend the Nile as a first (or second, or third) monitor to anyone.

Jobi you are an experienced Nile keeper. Jeff Lemm has lots of experience with Niles. Rob Faust is a talented keeper, and has had some great Niles. but they are the super rare exception to the "I'm gonna get a Nile monitor! They're cheap!" rule.

so Jobi, you keep and enjoy Nile monitors. right on. they are extremely beautiful, no doubt, and they can make interesting captives, under very particular conditions.

but your enthusiasm, and casual anecdotal posting now has this neophyte monitor keeper stoked about being able to keep a Nile for years in a 55 gallon tank, so it stays small- "i really dont want it to get to full size in my parents house. id like to have my own place by then?? "

come on man, this is NOT the way to approach a Nile monitor purchase, one of the largest, most dangerous lizards you can possibly buy.

i am not against the species, i am trying to steer folks into making a better decision, a knowledgable decision, and making a choice that will lead to long term success, not more disposable animals.

the price and convenience of the initial monitor purchase should be one of the LAST factors in the decision.

to the original poster, monitors are terrific to work with, and i don't want to discourage you from doing so. but this "I'm gonna get a Nile/Sav/Croc Monitor" post has been made a thousand times before, and it ends tragically more often than not.

choose wisely Indiana.
-----
robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

I so respect your statement Robyn! I trouly do, but dont forget that all the fine pepoles you mentioned has learned from these first steps in herpetoculture, especialy the bad experience, these are the ones we most profit from, its like combat! we learn from defeat more then otherwise.

for all the new keepers to be.

Some personal observation with the big guys!

Ornatus; I was fortunate enough to receive several warning bites from full grown adults of this specie, I say fortunate because without these exchanges theirs no way id have the understanding I have today, monitors especially Africans communicate by body language, olfactory, clawing, whipping and biting. I really connected with ornatus the day an adult female grabbed hold of my hand, I could see the expression in her eyes saying do you get the message? Leave me alone!
Inn all instance I suffered no damage.

Salvadorii; these are peculiar as they read you and anticipate your moves, they will strike without warning, in fact this specie has evolved a specialised hunting technique, they sleep well perched and grab the first thing that hits them ( bats mostly) even before they open eyes. Every keeper who touched them while sleeping has seen this behaviour, and most can testify about how they will size you up.

Albigularis; I find them to be the most prone to biting accidents then all others, they have such a strong feeding response and so little fear of keepers, once a big male jumped out the cage and darted for my feet relentless, all muscle no brains.

Salvator; its hard to provide for such a large monitor, iv yet to see a happy captive of this specie, seems to be out of reach to most keepers.
Needles to say theirs no way to fully appreciate this animal if its unhappy.
At present the worst possible choice as captive.

Just my opinion based on my experience with the many species iv kept thru the years.

Out of the 1000s sold 1000s learn about them, whatever experience they acquire has its importance, even the worst keeper can become a good ambassador from the experience gained.

Theirs nothing wrong with a reduced growth, every breeder of reptiles that I know ease on feeding newborns so they can sale them as such few months down the line. Its convenient with reptiles.

My first experience with nil’s was a drastic example not to be advocated, but still iv learned from this enough to understand the options.

Nowadays I see that every body wants to provide condos to there monitors, they seem to forget about basic needs, I say cover the base and work with it until the monitor need more.

Regardless of the information we provide only a few keepers will become like us, most will enjoy there experience and move on to other things they find interesting, make no difference what specie they start with the end result will be human win monitors lose.

hey thanks for the response i respect your oppinion as an expert. I have leared alot hear from those who know these the animals best. In terms of keeping a nile in a 55 gallon tank i wouldnt do that, i would provide it with the most adequite conditions. however the idea of slowing their growth excited me, because yeah, i could keep the animal managable until say i moved out. thats been a concern of mine, but size really doesnt matter to me. it doesnt matter what size it is i still have to take care of it and thats what im concerned with. will i be providing the best care for this animal?that is possible. thats why ive held off from buying one. I wouldnt foolishly buy an animal without learning about it.i did that with my first reptiles, and i learned alot about them afterwards, and have had to adjust their habitat accordingly. luckily they have been fine ( so fine my one guy decided to take off on me yesterday and is loose in the neighborhood )So thats why i came to this forum. ultimately the decission's up to me, and i want to make sure i am making the right decission. I have to start somewhere tho right? you recommend not starting with a nile, but other say its no problem.maybe ill buy an ackie? i will take all of your oppinions to the dealer!! thanks alot man i appreciate it.
Guy

I read the article on your site (didnt read it because i had to go to class) and it was very eloquent and made me think. it was almost philosophical. i think i will take a closer look at ackies. you've convinced me!! im doing this for the sake of any nile that i may want to buy in the future because i do not want an animal to die at my hands that i am caring for. thanks so much for your help.

Yeah, I'd definitely go with Ackies just because they are small, but I've heard they act and behave just like the big monitor so are still fun to keep. I wouldn't go with something that get huge because of the reason Robyn has mentioned. There are lots of unwanted large lizard, iguana of all species and monitors. So focus on something that you can handle, especially if you are living with your parents. Maybe when you move out and have a place of your own, you can look into buying a large monitor.

Have fun herping!

ok so ive changed my focus from nile monitors to ackies, but why the hell are they so expensive!! i have an idea, but compared to a nile monitor its a little much. are they hard to come by, i dont think their hard to breed, from the pro-exotics website it seems kinda easy to breed them. why such a high price? but yeah im looking at ackies now. i like their size and their hardiness.

It probably has to do with Australia's strict law of not exporting the wild life. You can get some out with intensive captive breeding program and have prove that all the animals were of captive raised and borned for certain generation, I think. Even then you still need a permit to sell them to people oversea. So all the Ackies sold are all captive raised and borned. There are no wild Ackies imported into other country. That's why they are so expensive, but to me they are worth it. Captive ones are less likely to harbor parasites and acclimate well to captive situation. Plus if you think about it, all of the rodents you would have to feed a large monitor would quickly add up and surpass the price of your Ackies in a very short period of time. In the long run it's a lot cheaper to buy Ackies. They only eat a fraction of what the larger monitor eat.

i thought so....but if people are breeding them on their own then it must be easier to find them right? the demand must go down along with the price? im guessing i wouldnt be able to find them at my local reptile expo, as i was able to find those niles so easily. if i did i would be paying a good amount. still i agree with you i would want an animal that comes from a captive breed line, rather than wild cought or farm raised. ANd considering the size of the reptiles I have ( well lone reptile now) an ackie would work out in terms of food and stuff. their slightly bigger then my 10 inch collared lizard. so i kinda have to muliply food and add some fuzzy items as well. wait how big do they get? i read 17 inches am i right on this?...im sure they would pay for themselves very quickly. i just have to find the money to buy one!! this will give me time to cool my jets on these lizards and raise some money for one!!

If money is your concern, then you would be better off with something besides a monitor lizard. They are not cheap animals.

With an ackie, you can easily justify the purchase cost by comparing the increased cost in housing and food that it takes to house a nile or sav.

Ackies are cheaper in the long run and will cause you less grief.

Sav, niles and other heavily imported African species will always have a cheaper initial cost. But that cheap cost causes them to be abused (ten of thousands imported, but few grow old) and causes legislation to be passed against them.....look at Florida and Nile monitors.
-----
-Daniel Hill
www.southernherper.com

money is no problem for me its just that compared to others they are pretty expensive. i paid $50 each for my collareds, but have spent a pretty good amount of money on their care and husbandry, so i know about the price it takes for good care of your reptiles. i dont care if they cost six dollars or 200 if i want it and am willing to care for them then I will gladly buy one.

yeah so how do savanna monitors fit into the spectrum of good monitors. are they closer to niles or closer ackies?

Savannah monitors still get quite big, so they need a lot of space. Savannahs can also be quite agressive like the niles.

I must say, the niles are by far the most rewarding captives in my collection. In my opinion much of the bad reputation comes from the fumbling newbs who generally buy them under the false pretense that daily handling will eventually result in a tame monitor. I hear all this stuff about "the best first monitor". The best first monitor is the one that really catches your fancy, and is within your means to support, period. Niles, waters, albigs and the like get very big and require a large amount of support, both financially and physically. If you cant affort to keep them properly, or dont have the space or time don't get one. Never get a monitor, any species, under the pretense of it becomming tame. I have seen the same kind of defensive behavior from every species I keep. None are any worse than the other. Each individual has it's own quirks.

These are quite outgoing and curious. They don't hiss bite or whip since I changed my ideas about handling and "taming". When I stopped offending them, they became quite a joy to keep.

Don't get something you are not truly interested in. You'll likely be unsatisfied and add to the whole problem of the disposable pet syndrome when you get rid of it.