Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just yesterday I received a document from my local town board stating that I am required to disclose all species living in my home.

Apparently several of my ignorant neighbors have began complaining to the town council that they don't feel safe with my reptiles living so close.

Although not one of my animals is on the list of regulated critters??

Anyone else have this happen to them?

Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
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1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
1.2.9 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garters "spot" & "Zig"
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garter - Princess
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua"
0.1.10 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snakes
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
0.1.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER"
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
0.1.0. calico RAT
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

What state do you live in? Many states require permits to own or keep in your possession (even temporarily) native species such as Brownsnakes regardless of how common they are. My guess is that if you provide them with a list and nothing you own is venomous or can get 20-feet long then there is nothing that can be done against you. If you do live in a state where you are required to have permits for native species then that could be a different story. Anyway, I know you release young every year so if I were you I wouldn't mention exact numbers if you are required to disclose quantity. Probably just list adults -- it may be of concern if they find out you have like 20 red-bellied snakes regardless of what your intentions are with them.

I meant also to mention that you should probably attach a cover letter to your list explaining that you do not keep dangerous species and that there are no public health or safety concerns that will ever come up as a result of you keeping them. The one animal you have the public may be most concerned about is you Red tail boa but even at full size that species will not be a threat to the public. Explain how you care for them, their temperaments, and any additional security measures you are willing to put in place to ensure you don't have any escapees if that means easing people's minds. If they are open to it, you might even try inviting some of these people over to meet one or two of your animals so they can see that you are a responsible keeper and that your animals will not attack their children. Sometimes it's difficult not to sound condescending or arrogant when pointing stuff like this out but it may be worth mentioning that a bigger threat is that St. Bernard across the street! Just make sure everything you write down is nice and professional.

Thanks, I will do that. BUT the town I live in has been after me for years.

I own a motocross track, and am grandfathered in, they have came after me both barrels blazing for everything from noise, dust, clutter, violating a protected waterway, you name it.

To me this is just another petty attempt to harass little ol me.

I plan to approach the whole thing with professionalism, and have even contemplated filing a DBA for an animal sanctuary.

Animal sanctuaries are exempt from reporting any species. And since almost all of my animals are rescued from certain doom, We should qualify as a sanctuary.

Oh, and the Boa belongs to the 4H camp my son attends. If they ever decided to give her up, I'd be first in line.

Regards,
Wayne
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1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
1.2.9 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garters "spot" & "Zig"
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garter - Princess
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua"
0.1.10 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snakes
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
0.1.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER"
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
0.1.0. calico RAT
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

Wayne--
Given the circumstances, it seems someone got ahold of a little information, and turned it into another way to annoy you. Just check out the regulations for your state and town, and find out what you need to do to spoil the bad "do-gooders". It always amazes me what folks can dream up to bother other folks with when they don't have sex or a hobby(lol).

rgds,
althea

Wayne,
I agree with Althea, some people need to get a life of their own and stop trying drag others down, what a joke, it's not like you're breeding retics and anacondas or salt water crocs.
Jeff
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You got your regius's to the wall, man!
1.0 pastel Python regius
0.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
0.2 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.1 Ambystoma tigrinum
0.2 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.1 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
1.1 heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus

I did my homework here is a link to the New York State page governing wildlife as pets.

What they mailed me was the PDF printer friendly copy of this same exact page.

Since I am not breaking any laws, not one of my pets is on the list of critters that must be reported, I'll leave them wondering.

I have to agree, someone decided to try and find out exactly what I have just to start something.

Peace,
Wayne A. Harvey

New York Wild animal reporting law

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1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
1.2.9 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garters "spot" & "Zig"
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garter - Princess
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua"
0.1.10 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snakes
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
0.1.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER"
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
0.1.0. calico RAT
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

Then it's real simple, reply...

In response to your interest/concerns, I am not keeping any species on the "required to report" list.

Thank you and go blank yourself!!

OK, maybe leave the last four words off your actual reply!!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I'd send a letter back. Use the various stuff on the net and educate them:

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/09/25/coolsc.critters.attacks/

http://www.anapsid.org/pdv-boid.html

http://listverse.com/nature/top-10-most-deadly-animals/

http://www.wemjournal.org/wmsonline/?request=get-document&issn=1080-6032&volume=016&issue=02&page=0067#i1080-6032-016-02-0067-t05

The last one is my favorite. Really puts things in perspective if you read it right.

Then I'd especially add:

"I assure you I keep no venomous species, nor any dangerous large bodied snakes. I would not put my family into any sort of danger.

I do keep small harmless, non venomous snakes such as brown snakes, garter snakes, etc etc [tell em what you got, but no need to tell numbers...heck throw in some stats if you want].

In addition while our town keeps track of the number of dogs, cats and livestock (which I appluad you for, as the charts I have given you clearly show they cause more deaths per year than something like...say...snakes), I am especially concerned of the numbers of truly dangerous animals living in the town and on my neighbors properties.
I have reason to believe there are bees, wasps, spiders, ticks AND EVEN MOSQUITOES (The number one killer of humans in the WORLD! TWO million people per year!) living in my neighbors properties and especially in their homes!

Perhaps a letter to the various houses along [your address] requesting the numbers and types of these truly dangerous pests is in order?"

And even draft up a letter ("I have taken the liberty to draft a letter for you to send" keeping as close to your original letter as possible except remove snakes and add in mosquitoes, spiders, ticks, etc etc.

If you really want to have fun, write the request letter and send a copy to your neighbors

Ohhh!!, I just LOVE the idea of hassling the hassler's!

Every last person involved needs to be crapped on here, just for being ignorant, and even MORE SO for someone else having to PAY for their ignorance.

Getting even can be so fun sometimes!,....that was a superb idea you came up with!, and I commend you for the great ideas!

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I have made an art form out of driving town council nuts.

And just for the heck of it, we are in fact filing papers for animal sanctuary status. That will bust their regius' even more!

Please take a second and read the PDF, then you can understand a lot.

This is where my income is generated, and I never have to leave home. It will also explain why I have dozers, big pumps and big mud bogs, as well as the time required to properly care for such high maintenance animals.

A normal 9-5 would take me away from here for too long.

Regards,
Wayne

On the downside, I cannot attend any reptile shows
newspaper article

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1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
1.2.9 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garters "spot" & "Zig"
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garter - Princess
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua"
0.1.10 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snakes
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
0.1.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER"
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
0.1.0. calico RAT
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

Confucious said, "Choose a job you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
How true.

The question is, once its a sanctuary, doesn't that mean you have to stop the moto cross stuff to protect the animals?

You might just want to set aside X acres away fromt he bikes and 4 wheelers as a wildlife area.

I have and always have set aside several acres bordering 200 acres of protected state woods.

I try to give back to mother nature what I have taken.

Every spring, my kids, girlfriend and I transfer as many of the frog eggs as we can gather to a pond I built and closed off to the riders. (from the bogs they ride in)

Last summer I shut the dozer down to relocate some milk snakes that I disturbed while landscaping.

Taking without giving back is never a good thing.

Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
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1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
1.2.9 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garters "spot" & "Zig"
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garter - Princess
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua"
0.1.10 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snakes
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
0.1.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER"
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
0.1.0. calico RAT
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

I salute you sir.

You happen to live in(or are planning to visit) the New England area? I would like to buy you a beer.

Cool!,....that sounds like a real fun place! I hope it continues to annoy all the snake hater's there too, as long as it doesn't cause you any direct problems in the future.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Thank you thank you.
The only catch is you gotta write it wihtout sounding like a real bastard....be professional like with just a hint of sarcasm.

That's right,...it can't be worded as being nasty, just factual, and strait forward, with a few good statistics thrown in here and there to get good points across. I seriously doubt the people causing all the problems actually love Fireants either, but they shouldn't work on making huge problems for the folks that have a few of them in their yards either.

I really HATE the idiotic mentality of the general public sometimes,......actually, make that MOST of the time!..LOL!

I hope I don't have any horrible nightmares in the future about scary repulsive things such as Garter Snakes, Ringnecks, or DeKay's Snakes,......those are all EXTREMELY dangerous to the safety and well-being of the folks in that easy-going little town...LOL!

Each and EVERY one of those people involved with stirring up the trouble there should be kicked right square in their butts for their participation in such nonsense!.....REALLY!

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Love the replies you got.

This happened to me some years ago, and I had about 5 milksnakes and a few kings. I complied because I figured I had nothing to worry about.

Long story short, I was unknowingly violating a wild animal possession ordinance of our local city. Not a crime persay, just that I didn't have the necessary permit and needed to comply. I simply sent in the $50 fee and received the permit after an inspection from the local animal control office. It all turned out fine, and the original complaint was dropped because I was now in compliance.

BTW, during the inspection, the animal control officer kept asking me if the red snakes (they were Sinaloans) were venemous. I pulled one out and assured him that they were harmless, pushing my hand in the snake's face to show how I had no worries if bitten. I wondered why he thought they were venemous. It would be many years until I found out why.

And the person who complained? I didn't know that either until she apologized many years later. It was the older sister of a girl I had dated and, well, decided not to date anymore. Her sister thought it would be funny to call animal control and say I had what they thought were highly venemous snakes. A prank I guess. We were all young. I have to laugh.
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Mark

Firstly, thanks for all the cool ideas, I will certainly incorporate as much as possible.

I am going to fill out the form, I will list only the scientific Latin names, then a cover letter that will take days to compose, proof read and pass through some friends.

I will mire the correspondence with legal terms and big words that will have them looking up stuff for weeks.

Then one day when no one is on the track, and the wind is blowing just the right direction, and the local wind bag has her wash out on the line, fire up the leaf blower and clean off my track.

My favorite code is regarding muzzle loading fire arms, there is no restrictions on bore diameter. ever hear a 2.5 inch mortar fire? My neighbors have...

Regards,
Wayne
the back yard

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1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
1.2.9 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garters "spot" & "Zig"
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garter - Princess
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua"
0.1.10 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snakes
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
0.1.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER"
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
0.1.0. calico RAT
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

LOL!!,...That is an EXCELLENT strategy!,...I concur whole-heartedly with all the great tactics!...hahaha!!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

FANTASTIC idea!