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I got a snake shipped to me yesterday that arrived with some unshed scales on its head and neck, a whistle when it breathed, and a weird dark spot of what looks like "dead" scales. I put her in a humid hide, contacted the person I got it from and took some pics. By night, she stopped whistling and by morning she shed those stuck scales, but I am still a bit worried about the spot. Here's a pic of it. Any advice? Does it look like anything anyone's seen before? It's not just a color, but a slight indentation too, like the scales no longer have the depth and fullness that they should. I'm either going to wait for her to shed and see what it looks like or take her to the vet. Any opinions would be appreciated!

It looks like it could be a burn. I had a monitor come in once with a spot on the top of it's head that looked like that. Over time it healed up in it's own and you couldn't tell that it had ever been there. You may want to try to put some antibiotic on it like neosporin to prevent infection. I am definetely no expert, this is just what it looks like to me.
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Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

What a bummer. Glad you got the stuck shed off, sounds like she had nasal shed left. Might want to check her nostrils extra close just to be sure. The spot looks like a burn or a bruise. If that were my snake, I'd do what you're already doing with the humid hide and I'd keep an eye on the spot during quarantine. If it grows, it could be a bacterial or fungal infection. With that color, its probably just an injury of some kind.

Given the condition she came in, I'd take her next few fecals to the vet before I let her into population. Sorry she arrived in rough shape, but I'm glad she's with you now and can get the care she deserves.

I must be missing something. Based on the responses you've gotten, it almost seems acceptable for a seller to send you a four figure snake with multiple problems, problems for which you should foot the bill. I'd get my money back asap if I were in your shoes, but maybe I'm being overcritical??? If none of these issues were disclosed to you, who knows what other issues might crop up after it's too late.

Either way, I'm really sorry this happened to you. I hate to see stuff like this, especially when a lot of money is shelled out.

Thanks,
Ed

>>I got a snake shipped to me yesterday that arrived with some unshed scales on its head and neck, a whistle when it breathed, and a weird dark spot of what looks like "dead" scales. I put her in a humid hide, contacted the person I got it from and took some pics. By night, she stopped whistling and by morning she shed those stuck scales, but I am still a bit worried about the spot. Here's a pic of it. Any advice? Does it look like anything anyone's seen before? It's not just a color, but a slight indentation too, like the scales no longer have the depth and fullness that they should. I'm either going to wait for her to shed and see what it looks like or take her to the vet. Any opinions would be appreciated!
>>
>>

It happens. I used to breed show quality rabbits when I was a little kid. Every year I'd have like 2 or 3 litters of bunnies and sold the babies at the county fair. One year I had a family come up to me and tell me that they bought a rabbit from me the previous year that had all kinds of medical problems and died because of a disease. I never had any problems with any of my stock, but there could be many reasons. Regardless, I thought this was obviously their fault, but they thought it was obviously mine. Anything is possible. This snake came from a well respected breeder, and I have a feeling I'm just a worry wart, but I'd rather be a worry wart than end up with 20 3 and 4 figure snakes die because of some infection that spread because I didn't catch it. Either way, if it proves to be a serious problem, I will ask for some of my money back, if not all (to cover vet bills). But there's no reason to freak if I don't really know how serious it is. Thanks a bunch though, to all of your comments. I appreciate the insights, and empathy. It does make me feel a lot better.

I'd guess burn as well. I ran into my first burnt snake earlier this weak and it looked very similar to what you showed/described. It was a creamsicle cornsnake so the scar was darker and browner orange then the rest of the snake instead of the brown/blackish color of yours but very similar in character. Also I am pretty sure that if it is burn scar then there is a chance it may never disapear even when it is fully healed. The cornsnake I saw with the burn scar was at least one if not several years since the injury occured.

I may have missed it but what was the age, variety, etc... of the new acquisition? If the snake was healthy other then a partial shed and a old scar then I would be anoyed but not pissed. If it was also sick or if the injury was recent then I would be pissed and complaining.

Either way you should never recieve surprises like that.

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

A Documented vet report of the condition of the snake should be gotten immediately. If it is from a respectable breeder they will want one NOW not after 30 days time. If it's localized bruising take a picture of the shipping box to prove it was not damaged in transit as well. I can't imagine the seller not examining the snake prior to shipping it unless he has hired a staff that may not know any better. (which is not smart)

Just because someone is considered a reputable or well known breeder is no reason for a consumer to take the shaft from a snake that should have been in perfect condition unless that problem was a part of the terms of the sale.

I have received snakes with mites from reputable breeders and complained to them.

I have also received improperly sexed snakes as well.

While it is true that no one is perfect, that is no reason for the consumer to swallow a mistake of the seller regardless of stature or reason.

A vet check early on and photos of the shipping container will be essential in your approach to the seller to be well received and also properly take the blame off yourself and the shipper (oldest trick in the book). The vet can estimate how long the snake had the condition in relation to when you purchased it. A wound takes a certain amount of time to heal. Prove the time is on your side and the wound had to have occurred prior to you receiving the animal.

If you do not have that Intel the buyer will "assume" the damage was caused by you and you will take the hit on the problem.

No matter whom it is, you must not take that sort of treatment.

Snakes are supposed to arrive in the condition you expected based on the agreement you had with the seller.

Don't get blackballed into a snake that you didn't intend to buy in the condition you expected it to arrive.

It's BS to allow yourself to be stepped on in this manner.

>>I'd guess burn as well. I ran into my first burnt snake earlier this weak and it looked very similar to what you showed/described. It was a creamsicle cornsnake so the scar was darker and browner orange then the rest of the snake instead of the brown/blackish color of yours but very similar in character. Also I am pretty sure that if it is burn scar then there is a chance it may never disapear even when it is fully healed. The cornsnake I saw with the burn scar was at least one if not several years since the injury occured.
>>
>>I may have missed it but what was the age, variety, etc... of the new acquisition? If the snake was healthy other then a partial shed and a old scar then I would be anoyed but not pissed. If it was also sick or if the injury was recent then I would be pissed and complaining.
>>
>>Either way you should never recieve surprises like that.
>>
>>Sean.
>>-----
>>1.1 BRB
>>1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
>>0.1 Silver TPRS
>>1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
>>0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
>>0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
>>1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
>>0.1 Reeve's Turtle
>>0.2 Amstaff's
>>1.0 Pudytat

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Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
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Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Keep in mind, anyone/everyone can be a "reputable breeder" if no customer ever complains! If I understand things correctly, the seller sold you an expensive, high-end snake that:

1) was wheezing
2) had bad shed
3) has an obvious burn spot

And he didn't disclose ANY of these OBVIOUS problems? There would be smoke coming out of my ears if I got a snake like that.

Thanks,
Ed

>>It happens. I used to breed show quality rabbits when I was a little kid. Every year I'd have like 2 or 3 litters of bunnies and sold the babies at the county fair. One year I had a family come up to me and tell me that they bought a rabbit from me the previous year that had all kinds of medical problems and died because of a disease. I never had any problems with any of my stock, but there could be many reasons. Regardless, I thought this was obviously their fault, but they thought it was obviously mine. Anything is possible. This snake came from a well respected breeder, and I have a feeling I'm just a worry wart, but I'd rather be a worry wart than end up with 20 3 and 4 figure snakes die because of some infection that spread because I didn't catch it. Either way, if it proves to be a serious problem, I will ask for some of my money back, if not all (to cover vet bills). But there's no reason to freak if I don't really know how serious it is. Thanks a bunch though, to all of your comments. I appreciate the insights, and empathy. It does make me feel a lot better.

You're very nice. As a breeder of show dogs and ferrets, I would bend over backwards to make sure that anyone who came to me a year later was heard and taken care of. I keep in contact with my buyers so I'd hope I'd know a whole lot earlier, but still, even a year later I'd want to remedy the situation somehow.

Your snake may have come from a very reputable breeder and if this is the case, then they'll walk the walk. A poor shed didnt happen on the trip to your house. Unless there was a full fresh shed in the box, that snake was in that condition when she was packed and you should have been made aware. Its possible that the black mark was from shipping if she was packed in such a way that she was able to bounce around or the heat pack was right up next to her. The seller should be aware of that.

I wouldnt hesitate to make the seller aware of the problems. You dont have to be confrontational, but you paid good money for your new girl and you should have been made aware of any problems with her before she was sold to you. A reputable seller will take pains to make sure you're happy. If nothing bad comes of the snake's future health, that's great, but if that wheezing is more than a stock nostril shed, you'd better say something immediately so the seller is on alert. You dont have to be a jerk, but you should be heard.

as a reputable (semi ) breeder, I would have to agree this is not acceptable.

The bad shed/stuck scales - happens and is really not a big deal - by itself!!

The wheezing - definitely scary but could be an affect of shipping and/or the conditions that led to the bad shed. Sounds like proper housing has "fixed" the problem, at least short term, MUST BE MONITORED!!! Again, by itself not great but also not a huge deal as long as it's cured with proper housing.

The burn (looks like a burn to me) or whatever it is - IMO is the one real factor. Unless it is a bruise incurred in shipping (I guess it could happen) It is CLEARLY something the "reputable breeder" should have noticed and/or disclosed PRIOR to shipping. Even if it was something new or otherwise not noticed, the seller is responsible.

Of course the other two factors should be included in your dispute (should you choose to persue) since while you can work through them, you should not have had to!! On the other hand, there is a strong probability that none of theese issues will affect the breeding potential of the snake, therefore, could still fit your needs. That's a call only you can make!!!

My $0.02
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

The problems with the snake are things that many big dealers would not notice. A serious breeder would notice them and would not ship a snake in that condition. The whistle breath sound and stuck shed around head are probably related. It could be due to just being a little too dry when it was time to shed but it also could be caused by a respiratory problem and sticky mucus discharge caused the skin to stick around the head. The spot of darkened flattened scales looks like a not too serious old burn to me.
Good luck,
Jeff

>>I got a snake shipped to me yesterday that arrived with some unshed scales on its head and neck, a whistle when it breathed, and a weird dark spot of what looks like "dead" scales. I put her in a humid hide, contacted the person I got it from and took some pics. By night, she stopped whistling and by morning she shed those stuck scales, but I am still a bit worried about the spot. Here's a pic of it. Any advice? Does it look like anything anyone's seen before? It's not just a color, but a slight indentation too, like the scales no longer have the depth and fullness that they should. I'm either going to wait for her to shed and see what it looks like or take her to the vet. Any opinions would be appreciated!
>>
>>

Well, first off, the stuck shed came off and her breathing has been totally fine ever since. I did notice a bit of dry scales by her nasal cavity when she arrived. I don't think it's a URI. So I'm going to just set that issue aside unless it rears it's head again. Second issue was the spot. I emailed the breeder and did my very best to say I don't want to be a [bleep], but I won't lay down and take it like a doormat either. I basically said that I was willing to wait until she sheds next, but if the problem didn't appear to go away, or at least diminish, I wanted my vet to take a look. I don't think I should have to pay a bill for an injury that she arrived with. But I don't think I should go incur a huge vet bill over nothing and expect him to pay it either. So I thought that was fair. I said that if it came to the vet visit, we'd have to proceed from there based on what she said. Now I just hope she sheds withing 30 days... LOL!! Not to mention I hope she'll be ok. Sigh, I agree that this is unacceptable, but I've been buying a bunch of snakes to get my breeding projects going, and it was bound to happen. I'm doing my very best to be a good sport without ending up like a doormat!

Anyway, thanks for all the advice, opinions, and encouraging words. It made me feel a lot better, and a bit justified in being just a little pissed/disappointed over this! Hopefully she'll just shed it off and it will be no big deal.

You wrote: "Sigh, I agree that this is unacceptable, but I've been buying a bunch of snakes to get my breeding projects going, and it was bound to happen."

And I agree 110% with that. Even when buying from the biggest names in the business you will occasionally get a missexed one or one with mites or a strange disease. Quarantine is VERY important.
Jeff

>>Well, first off, the stuck shed came off and her breathing has been totally fine ever since. I did notice a bit of dry scales by her nasal cavity when she arrived. I don't think it's a URI. So I'm going to just set that issue aside unless it rears it's head again. Second issue was the spot. I emailed the breeder and did my very best to say I don't want to be a [bleep], but I won't lay down and take it like a doormat either. I basically said that I was willing to wait until she sheds next, but if the problem didn't appear to go away, or at least diminish, I wanted my vet to take a look. I don't think I should have to pay a bill for an injury that she arrived with. But I don't think I should go incur a huge vet bill over nothing and expect him to pay it either. So I thought that was fair. I said that if it came to the vet visit, we'd have to proceed from there based on what she said. Now I just hope she sheds withing 30 days... LOL!! Not to mention I hope she'll be ok. Sigh, I agree that this is unacceptable, but I've been buying a bunch of snakes to get my breeding projects going, and it was bound to happen. I'm doing my very best to be a good sport without ending up like a doormat!
>>
>>Anyway, thanks for all the advice, opinions, and encouraging words. It made me feel a lot better, and a bit justified in being just a little pissed/disappointed over this! Hopefully she'll just shed it off and it will be no big deal.

The breeder messaged me back, insisting that the snake is healthy. I just want this person to accept that there might be something wrong and that something might need to be done about it. It's very upsetting that they won't. I'm trying my very hardest to be a good sport, but it's becoming very difficult.

Hopefully another message will convince him that you're not just making something up to cause trouble, something's really up with the snake. If he wont be a decent guy about things, there's always the BOI to put a fair and factual account of the transaction on so others can be aware of your experience before they choose to do business with him. Hopefully he'll just be decent.

bummer. sorry you're going through this.

It is essential for you to go to the vet and get documentation that whatever is wrong with the snake took longer to get then you have had the snake under your care. Not something it caught on the way there from the shipper and or your improper husbandry. The time table is very important. The burn is also kind of important (if that's what it is). It shows how the snake was being treated prior to you receiving it.

>>bummer. sorry you're going through this.
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Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
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Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

My vet doesn't have an open appointment before Tuesday. Is do you think this is too late?

any problems your snake has will need to be proven to have existed before the date you recieved it, so you can make a valid point to the seller. So tuesday would not be too late IMO anyways

>>My vet doesn't have an open appointment before Tuesday. Is do you think this is too late?
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=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

She has a URI and some old burn scars. The URI has not progressed to anything serious, but I am going to give her some antibiotics just to be sure. The breeder ended up reluctantly agreeing to send me back some of my payment to cover the vet bill, so although I shouldn't have had to deal with this, it worked out alright. Thanks for all the advice and support. I'm very glad I took her to the vet and I now know what's wrong and that she'll be ok. You guys are awesome!!

That's good news. I'm glad you got her in so quickly and were able to start her treatment before the URI progressed too far. Even more glad that the seller did the right thing. Now you can get on with the business of enjoying your beautiful new snake!

She is purty... I'll post pics when she gets better. The vet kept talking about how pretty and docile she was.