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I was curious if I had the equation correct. Please jump in and help me out.

As far as I understand to make a sunset you have to:

1. Breed and Salmon and a Hogg Island together.... all resulting babies will be DH Sunset

2. Breed pair of DH Sunsets together.....

That's where I'm stuck, what percentages of and what will this pairing produce??

Also, the nicest Sunset I've seen is one Alex G's website.... it's burnt orange in color and has an almost completely black head. Is there any combo of the DH parents or the Salmon and Hogg Island grandparents that would help the sunset boa have that appearance. Thanks in advance for the input.
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1.0 Columbian RTB - "Fedor"
1.0 Orange Ghost BP - "Charlie"
1.0 Mojave BP - "Jack"
3.0 Pastel BP - "Tito", "Cruz"(50% Het Ghost), "Jose"
1.0 100% Het Pied BP - "Logan"
1.0 100% Het Albino BP - "Mac"
0.1 100% Het Orange Ghost - "Mya"
0.9 Normal BP - (3 poss het alb, 1 poss het pied)

"a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!" - joshhutto

not entially sure but from breeding a salmon to a hogg only half the babies will be double het sunsets as only half will be salmon ( unless you use a supesalmon that is )

...
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Snake room janitor

As I understand it, the DH/Sunset, is more commonly called Hypo/Hogs, and breeding a pair of those will get you Hypo/Hogs and some will be Supers (AKA Sunsets)- they are obvious from the non-supers.
I'd like to see a pic of the Sunset that your speaking of, because I haven't heard or seen Sunsets with barely any Black at all. Hypo/Hogs though can and some will have blacker heads.

From what I understand Hypo/Hog, and Sunset colors develope later into sub-adulthood. Here's some that I produced this last month from unrelated Hypo/Hogs - Not trying to bogart your thread.

here you can plainly tell which two are Supers

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Snake room janitor

This picture is from Alex Garriga's site.... awesome snake

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1.0 Columbian RTB - "Fedor"
1.0 Orange Ghost BP - "Charlie"
1.0 Mojave BP - "Jack"
3.0 Pastel BP - "Tito", "Cruz"(50% Het Ghost), "Jose"
1.0 100% Het Pied BP - "Logan"
1.0 100% Het Albino BP - "Mac"
0.1 100% Het Orange Ghost - "Mya"
0.9 Normal BP - (3 poss het alb, 1 poss het pied)

"a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!" - joshhutto

the term Double Het for sunset is very misleading. Double het infers that there are two seperate morph genes at play. This however is not the case with sunsets. The hogg island appearance is more of local specific hypo that has developed due to environmental conditions over a very very long time (evolved). Everything else is pretty much true though. Breed a hypo or super hypo to a pure hogg island and get either half or all hypo hoggs (half if it isn't a super hypo). Then breed hypo hogg to hypo hogg and you should get a 25% ratio of sunsets, 50% Hypo hogg and 25% hogg island x columbian cross normal. I hope this helps.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

thanks for the info.... that was what I needed to know. Also, do you have any thoughts on color manipulation. For example, getting one close to the color in the pic I posted in the above post?? Thanks again!!
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1.0 Columbian RTB - "Fedor"
1.0 Orange Ghost BP - "Charlie"
1.0 Mojave BP - "Jack"
3.0 Pastel BP - "Tito", "Cruz"(50% Het Ghost), "Jose"
1.0 100% Het Pied BP - "Logan"
1.0 100% Het Albino BP - "Mac"
0.1 100% Het Orange Ghost - "Mya"
0.9 Normal BP - (3 poss het alb, 1 poss het pied)

"a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!" - joshhutto

The animal that you posted a picture of is from the D&M line of Sunsets. They were the first to produce a Sunset boa. They are well known for extreme color and color changes that animal posted is in its dark phase when in light phase you will not be able to see any of that black on the head.

gotta love the hog influence in that aspect. those are some color changin snakes if I ever seen one.
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My Photobucket
My Myspace

I just bought my first boa morph last month,1.1 hypos. I'm normally a BCC lover and I guess just got bit by the morph bug. But it just sounds like sunsets are just hypo/hoggs, 2nd generation hypo/hoggs. With the breeding process mentioned, sunsets, hypo/hoggs, and hogg cross colombian, they're all 50% hogg island and colombian.

And are sunsets always 50%hogg and colombian, how about 75% hogg or 50% salmontine and hogg.

a true sunset should be a super hypo hogg. The more hogg blood in them will only make them better but they must be super hypo as well. I don't think it has been done with hypo argentine blood as I think it would be counterproductive adding all that black into a breeding that you are trying to completely eradicate the black but what do I know. Try it and if it comes out awesome I'll pick one up from you, lol.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your statement about the more Hogg Blood the better.If that were the case then the Hogg crosses would be the Boas everybody liked not the hybrid form "Sunset Boas".I'm probably taking the statement the wrong way.
Another thing I beleive is that Damian Salgado produces Hogg X Hypo Boas, Hybrid form he calls Sunset Boas.Other people produce some really great looking Hypo Hoggs Hybrids they can call what ever they want.They just shouldn't call them Sunset Boas unless related to Damian Salgado line.Its just like any other Boa line,whoever produces it calls it what they want.You can produce a like Boa but not call it by the same name.This is an opinion I have about this type of situation.Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I understand about if a person is breeding a "LINE" of animals that is established from a wild locality and keeping that person's name with that line. It is all about respect and I do believe that we should give respect when it is due. The terms "sunset" was coined for super hypo hoggs in general not just one line of them. If we were to rename every new morph/combo every time a new animal of the same morph is imported, well it would be as confusing as some of the bp morphs are, lol.

Also to coin a hypo hogg as a hybrid is also incorrect. Both columbian and hogg island boas are b.c.i. just originating from different locals so the term intergrade would be more appropriate.

My comment about the more hogg blood the better was referring to once you get a super hypo hogg (sunset) breeding it back to a hogg island and getting hypo hoggs that are now 75% hogg and then using them to create additional sunsets as this brings out alot more of the bright oranges, pinks, and blues that I love to see in sunsets.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Thanks for clarifing the injecting more Hogg into the line.
Now I understand what you were saying there it makes sense.
As far as the term "Sunset Boa"that name was coined by
Damian for his Boas.Its the same as calling any Pastel Boa a
"Pastel Dream",that certainly wouldn't be right.Another analogy
maybe better.There are many Sunglow Boas.Some of which are very
nice high contrast Sunglows that look great like Burke "Lipstick
line" Sunglows.You can't call the other Sunglows "Lipstick Line"
though,because they didn't come from the Burke Line.I maybe in
the minority on this particular "Sunset" subject,I don't
know.That doesn't mean I'm wrong about it.I think its a great
way to keep different lines straight.So you know what your
getting and where the roots came from.Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

Actually I agree with using people's line names appropriately. However, from my understanding Damian used an already existant line of Hogg Islands and just made the super hypo cross first. If he had imported a new wild bloodline of hogg island boas and put the time in establishing them and then breeding I would have no problem utilizing "sunset" for his line of super hypo hoggs at all. I may be wrong but like I stated earlier, he used a bloodline of hoggs that have been in the country for years before and established by other breeders in his project. If I'm wrong please correct me.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I understand your talking about Locality Boas.
I'm talking about Morphs and Morph lines which
this falls under.Damian was the first to do this
type pairing.Now its a new Morph he names his new
Morph "Sunset Boa".The next person to do similar
breeding as stated with Sunglow analogy now names
his something different.
I've been looking at this very narrowly.Discussing
this with you has helped me back up and look at this
from a different perspective.So just as all Hypo x Albino
pairings are called "Sunglow Boas".So goes the "Sunset"
name.So a person can say its "DM line" "Paul Mitchell
Line" or "Morgan Line" Sunset Boa for example.
For some reason LOL I have a different view on this.
Probably because back in '03 when this Morph was explained
to me.I was told the line of Hog Island Boas used
(1.1 hog Isle Boas) had unique genetics.Genetics
(unique Aberrancy & color)that couldn't be reproduced by
other Hog Island lines of Boas.Ian Demello told me this.
I went to Damian about this later in '04 he said that's
true.So I always have thought other lines couldn't compare
to the originals.So that's why I get stuck in this idea
I have about them.Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

Speaking of which, I had JUST talked to someone about that cross... using the Salmontines to create a redder sunset; hopefully there is not going to be as much black as you think... we shall see!
I am in the process of creating that combo now... so I really hope to be the first and if it looks killer, I will definitely be sharing! The male is a probable super salmontine from Salmonboa.com that will father the babies to start my project. I really didn't want to put it out in the open so soon, but since you've brought it to light... I don't want anyone thinking that nobody is working on it at the moment! I myself am really excited to see the end result... which of course, will take a few seasons...
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
0.1 DH Sunglow (Bonnie)
0.0.1 Hypo het anery
1.0.0 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.1 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal)
1.2 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang.)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
0.1 Emerald Tree boa (Jade)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.1 Carpet Pythons (Jackson & Charlotte)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

I actually think that if the hypo blood in the animal and hogg blood is of good quality, you won't have any black and just have a super high quality super hypo hogg (sunset). I mean afterall, you will still end up with a super hypo that is 50% hogg and 25% argentine and 25% columbian. I actually bet you will get one awesome animal. If you don't mind, can you post a pic of your super salmontine please, I would love to see him.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

The does sound like it could turn into a great pairing.
I'll be interested to see how it turns out,good luck.
. . .Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

Well, I'm crushed, reading down I find that some folks have already done this pairing... I wanted to try something nobody had done and had asked Jeff at Boaphile and mentioned my idea to John at Salmonboa and neither had heard of it being done yet... too bad. I, however, will still continue in hopes of an awesome result.
I have one picture I can show of my new male, John sent it to me of him before I started paying on him... I chose him greatly on the fact that John felt he was most likely a super. I wanted to avoid the normal cross/hybrid babies if I could. It was, of course, a personal choice... I feel they have little value, monetary and as far as folks wanting them, I want to sell animals that I feel won't end up in the adoption ads someday.
Here is the photo I have right now... What do you think of him? Hopefully, I'll have more soon... I can't wait!

I have a nice adult, high-orange tailed female Hog I wanted to breed him to that didn't take this season so far, and a gal that should be ready next season who is very, very orange and pink... I may have some pics of them laying around...

This is Tangerine, the older, proven gal...

And the younger, more colorful hog female for his next liason... She hid her head in the picture though and though she looks like a fattie in the picture, she was digesting a meal. I can't WAIT to see the kids from these two... the time passes so slowly and I hate waiting ;p

Any thoughts or opinions?
I am very optimistic about the final result, come a few years from now...
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
0.1 DH Sunglow (Bonnie)
0.0.1 Hypo het anery
1.0.0 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.1 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal)
1.2 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang.)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
0.1 Emerald Tree boa (Jade)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.1 Carpet Pythons (Jackson & Charlotte)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

My female may be his littermate. Mine is an 06 from John at SB. Both my male and female are probable supersalmons so hopefully I wont come out w/ too many normals either. Good luck on your pairings. When making these crosses,you never really know what your going to get, I imagine the results will be beyond anyone's belief...Jon
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1.1.1 breeding pair blue tongue skinks w/ juv. offspring
1.0.0 Juv. Albino Bullfrog
0.0.2 Giant Pixie Frog (one juv. and one adult)
1.1.0 Clawed frogs
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight juv Sulcatta
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.2.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
1.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)

They may very well be litter-mates! John said he is an 06 also, pretty neat stuff... and strange that we are both interested in this cross and just happened to pick up our salmontines from the same source! I let him know my plans and told him I'd pay extra for a male he felt was most likely super, of the males he had available, this was the one he picked. I felt he had a more experienced eye for such things than I, his opinion mattered a great deal to me on this undertaking.
You should keep me updated on your breedings! I would like to see what you produce and how the babies turn out... what you have shown me so far is really good-looking!
I am pretty excited to breed my younger female next season, she is the more colorful of my two female hogs and I think it would really compliment what I am trying to achieve... if we keep in touch and I succeed, I will send you pictures as I make progress... if any! ;p
Thanks!
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine
0.1 DH Sunglow (Bonnie)
0.0.1 Hypo het anery
1.0.0 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.1 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal)
1.2 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang.)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
0.1 Emerald Tree boa (Jade)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.1 Carpet Pythons (Jackson & Charlotte)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

I remember seeing on this board or on the classifieds not too long ago,cant remember where, but someone had bred hypohog to salmontine, the babies werent too spectacular, but maybe it was just his genetics he used or maybe they just will get their color later. I would love to see someone selectively breed a high quality HH to a high quality salmontine. I have the stock (GCR HH and Salmonboa Salmontine) but just am waiting for them to grow up.... Jon
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1.1.1 breeding pair blue tongue skinks w/ juv. offspring
1.0.0 Juv. Albino Bullfrog
0.0.2 Giant Pixie Frog (one juv. and one adult)
1.1.0 Clawed frogs
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight juv Sulcatta
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.2.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
1.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)

heres my combo, there baby pics though, look much better now but dont have a cam

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1.1.1 breeding pair blue tongue skinks w/ juv. offspring
1.0.0 Juv. Albino Bullfrog
0.0.2 Giant Pixie Frog (one juv. and one adult)
1.1.0 Clawed frogs
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight juv Sulcatta
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.2.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
1.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)

Well, I'm sad now
However, I still think it is a great idea and project, and I can't really back out now! I did ask a few folk about whether it had been done, and they didn't think so... but now I know the truth! Geez... I liked being ignorant better! LOL!
Those are really nice snakes... fire-crackers! I hope mine look as good... I posted pictures of my probable super salmontine male and my two female hogs in this thread above, my second reply, if you'd like to give me your thoughts on my own hopeful pairings? I still think there are a lot of ways the salmontine/hog cross could vary in color and pattern, it hasn't been done that much yet... so I don't feel too put out that I'm not the first one; in fact, I feel buoyed by the fact yours are so nice-looking!
Thanks for posting!
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
0.1 DH Sunglow (Bonnie)
0.0.1 Hypo het anery
1.0.0 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.1 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal)
1.2 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang.)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
0.1 Emerald Tree boa (Jade)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.1 Carpet Pythons (Jackson & Charlotte)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)