Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What have you seen differently this year? Below you posted to mind p's and q's. Most years folks do a pretty good job about being polite (with a few exceptions).

Have you heard any folks of strict enforcement? With the small number of West Texas herpers in contrast to those that collect snakes by the thousands in asia, I believe LE will slowly realize that we take very few animals and most folks don't sell their WC animals.

Again just curious as to what others have seen or heard so far.

Best Wishes,

Steven

'Have you heard any folks of strict enforcement' Sorry I meant to say "Have you heard from any folks exmamples of strict enforcement?"...

I am not awake yet.

Steven

socksucker!! Why cant I login to HCU?

>>socksucker!! Why cant I login to HCU?

ROFL...... Smitty, it could be a pattern with you. Why can't I log in here? Why can't I log in there?

Why don't you e-mail me and tell me what log-in and password you are trying to use and I will correct it and make it work.

Steve,
Read the link I posted below starting on page 4.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks
Captive Bred Locality Matched Desert Kingsnakes

Before posting the message. It was early but the gist is that they are going to enforce laws vigorously in the best interest of our environment. Some laws may not be in our favor or benefit and I don't agree with all of them.

I think they will do what it takes to ensure future funding since, money is everything. I think they will make examples when necessary but in our case, we really don't take a lot.

Most of us are not commercial collectors so I don't think we have much to worry about. Now, folks with 3000 turtles and stuff like that, yes, those folks should watch their back. Those with a few native animals, just follow the codes and you should be ok. As for observing, I don't think they will give you a hard time. I could be wrong... I hope I am not.

Just don't have hunting "hardware" with you while observing. Common sense stuff.

Best Wishes,

Steven

to have hooks, tongs, bags, etc in your vehicle! I hunt on private land, (and I plan to continue to move crotalids off the road), so I'll continue to carry a few bags and my hook in the truck. And if I've decided to keep a snake I found on private land, I might be transporting that in my vehicle as well, while observing on the way home or back to a motel. Nothing illegal about THAT either, and if ticketed for it I or anyone else should fight it!
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

i agree....i won't make the meeting....too much here...graduations, baptisms, 1st holy communions.....but august looks good

First I agree with what you say. Please keep that in mind before reading on.

Think of another example. I california, it is medically legal to have Marijuana. Now, you can utilize it in your home. Not outside of it. Do you think they allow you to carry hemo's and paraphenalia around in your car just cause you can use it at home... probably not.

Same thought here... you can hunt on private land. If you have the means to hunt in your car or truck while driving it is going to be up to the warden's descretion to make a judgement call.

I for one like to leave no doubt. I am observing, you see no means of take in my vehicle, you see no bags.

Best Wishes,

Steven

I hate to be a stickler, but I believe it is important for herpers not to voluntarily give away those rights which have not already been specifically (and unfairly) taken away.

I don't think the above example applies-if there is a law against carrying paraphenalia in CA, then I imagine you would be cited/arrested. If not (as in my native Ohio at the time I was a teenager) then no, you could not be cited or arrested. Same here-the way the law is written, it is only illegal to "hunt" nongame from the road/right of way. It is in no way illegal to transport herps in a vehicle, nor to possess herping "paraphenalia" at any time, nor to observe/photograph. If you are cited by an overzealous LE merely for observing herps with collecting equipment in the vehicle, then I don't see how such a citation could be made to stick. Even Sinclair apparently agrees with this position, as I saw a comment by him a few months ago that says essentially the same thing....

It would be almost impossible for me and I know many others to seperate their "collecting" from "observation"-since both may occur far from home base, yet in the same general region and on the same day.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

>>to have hooks, tongs, bags, etc in your vehicle! I hunt on private land, (and I plan to continue to move crotalids off the road), so I'll continue to carry a few bags and my hook in the truck. >>-----
>>Brad Chambers
>>WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

If anyone is still worried about possessing a snake hook you can consider the fact that there's no law stating what shape/configuration your car antenna is molded in.
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Steve W.

last visit = 05/10/2008 13:13:35
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks
Captive Bred Locality Matched Desert Kingsnakes

Well we are here again. Same as 3 weeks ago we were passed by tpw today with hooks in hand and they waived as they passed. We worked the cuts from 7 pm till 4 am. and not 1 problem. Even border patrol just passed on by. We are parking far off the street and not causing any problems. There were 4 other groups that we ran into last night and no one reported any problems. We will be here till next Sunday and will not change our plans unless we do run into problems then we will re analyze it. We are fully prepared to pay the price if we are ticketed but after several pm’s from others we will not just pay it but will fight it in court and test the law.

for that court test. It is my belief that most in TPW LE (that have any feelings at all on the matter) don't intend to utilize this regulation except in cases in which herpers are causing a perceived and blatant "problem". Here we are a year afterward, and so far no citations and only one or two warnings (correct me if I've missed any?). I've spoken with three wardens in the last few months, all in relatively commonly "herped" regions, and two of them did not even seem more than vaguely aware of herpers-not on their radar screen at all. The third had a very positive view of us.

Any contrary experiences?
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I would love to see them try to justify the need for this law in a courtroom. The closer you look at it the more senseless it becomes. Now if they had just made a law against spotlighting from a vehicle, I could see a justification. There is more truck traffic and traffic in general out there than in years past and I can see a danger. But there is really no safety issue where walking cuts concerned, especially when you can still walk cuts in order to observe, photograph or do any number of other things and they sure aren't trying to say picking flowers or photographing cactus on the road shoulder is dangerous. So what is the harm in walking and taking any non-T&E herp off the road shoulder? It is by far the most ecological method and location and the most easily policed method, as opposed to trapping or breaking rocks which is either still legal or very hard to enforce on private property. I would hate to see somebody have to endure a court battle but we really need as much attention on this issue as possible in order to force TPWD to explain their reasoning on record rather than in dumb one-sided soundbites they get in the papers.

Well I got the news 2nd hand again last night but this time from border patrol at 118 check station. I have a question 1st. is tpw and state game wardens the same??? I’ll start with the beginning and it was that it rained just south of alpine which thrilled me. Creeks were running and all but still not 1 snake. We ran down to the cuts outside of steady bute and had 9 million candlepower of lights shining out of the van on every cut. On the final crest there was a green truck that said state game warden (only thing we saw on the cuts). He nodded and we waived and kept on going (lights off). I was expecting the Christmas trees any time but it never happened. We ran the river road area till 4 am and headed back to Sanderson. At the check station as usual I killed the engine and shot the breeze with them. They asked what we were doing and I told them. I asked them if it had been a busy night and they said yes. I made the comment that I had seen several game warden trucks and asked what was going on and the response was snake season was starting soon and they were getting ready. I did not like that answer but 8 hours earlier I was lighting up both sides of the road directly in front of 1 of them. I’m not sure why they were working the area specifically for snake collectors (per border patrol) and did not even question us when we were so busted. So tonight I will be there again but this time I’ll stop them if they are there again and try to get a little better feeling on what’s going to happen.

If they see you pick up a snake and "take" it then you will see your xmas lights.

As far as I know, you were not breaking any laws. No law against shining a light out the window. And no law against looking. Specifically what they are looking for is "trap, capture, take, kill, or attempt to Trap, Capture, take, or kill".

Right now I'm sure they are not eager to violate anyone's civil rights. All they have to do is sit and wait and they know they will get someone that is going to "gift wrap" one for them.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks
Captive Bred Locality Matched Desert Kingsnakes

Glad for the clarification there. That would explain it.

>>Glad for the clarification there. That would explain it.

No problem, BTW I forgot to mention, that if you happen to like Tarantulas, Centipedes, Millipedes, Walking Sticks, etc, feel free to pick those up from the road surface. That is perfectly legal.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks
Captive Bred Locality Matched Desert Kingsnakes

I think if you would have had one more million candle power you would have recieved a ticket! LOL.....
9 million? are we compensating for something? LOL... j/k but man that sounds like over kill to me.So I take it you had 3-3 millions going? hope your rig holds up they draw allot of power prom those little plugs.

Keep us posted as to what goes on down there.

Thanks Shannon

I thought that too... 9,000,000 CP is a very hot light and will bounce back some glare on the white cuts. I have seen some very good results from my little 100,000 CP flood light So I guess it is true, it is not what you have but how you use it?

Good luck out there and keep up the day-to-day logs..

Lance
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

Yes 3- 3 millions…heavy duty almost Oklahoma style storms last night. Worked juno from 7pm till 2 am and not 1 snake seen on the road or cuts. Makes it tough when 15 trucks are on the road testing tires at what seems like 100 mph.Toads were everywhere though. Left juno on 90 and hit every cut between there and Dryden and not 1 snake. North on 349 to Lancaster , back to 2400, across to 285, and south to Sanderson. Not 1 aor or dor for the night. We have cracked the 3000 mile mark and headed for 4000 now.. im glad I got unlimited miles from the car rental company.

sounds like a few nights I have had.I usually put about 5-6k miles on a car/truck every year in two weeks.One year we hit 8k in 15 days.crazy.....

L8r

Well it’s finally over.. 5800 miles on the rental. The last 2 days I got the feeling we were being watched by more than just tpw. Twice through check points I noticed my tag # being jotted down and the person writing immediately on the walkie talkie. I never hid what I was doing from anyone when asked. The last night we were stopped by highway parole less than 10 minutes later. He ran our plates and all 3 in the vans id’s and sent us on our way. 10 minutes later 2 border patrol had me pulled over and the same thing. Took 20 minutes. Between Dryden and Sanderson we were stopped 5 times even though we were not shining any cuts. In all we were stopped I would say 25-30 times in 10 days buy everyone but fish and game even though we did see them nearly every night. All were very polite and professional. Fish and game knew we were there and what we were doing but gave us no grief. They never witnessed us doing anything other than shinning cuts and photographing the wildlife. So I will be back in 2 weeks for another 10 days or so and will once again welcome them to stop me and say hello. And a warning for anyone headed to the river.. stedy bute $4.13 a gallon and marathon I believe was $4.15.

Did you guys have hunting lisences? and if you did why?

L8r

we did have them we did indeed do some collecting on private property.